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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#151

Post by JackFr »

xwdv wrote: post #137
ta1234567890 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. He most likely would have gotten his money back, even without renewing the note, had he accepted a payment plan. Instead, he chose to start a (very costly) legal fight. So far he's probably out $100k+ in legal fees and looking to spend $100-200k more in the new personal lawsuit. The original note was for $250k. I don't think he's ever going to recover the full amount of money he's put into this (not…

Why would he make it so personal? What did you guys do to him?

Is it possible that it wasn't personal?

That the contract was cancelled because the product wasn't worth it?

That the note wasn't extended because he thought the company was a money sink which would not be profitable? That he thought trying to liquidate the good bits was a better way to get his money, rather than a payment plan from a value destroying enterprise?

That he sued personally because he felt they might be trying to hide assets of the firm?

I could be wrong, but there are other angles to see the picture from.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#152

Post by cosmie »

papito wrote: post #28
Ididntdothis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often ask people who are complaining about their salary whether have asked for a raise. Most of the time the answer is “no” followed by reasons like “I am afraid to get fired” or “they will make my life miserable” or “they should just do the right thing”.

Exactly. 9 out of 10 managers will give you more money. They are not going to offer it to you, normally, because they are not a charity. They want to give you the least amount of money that you will except. Secondly, who ever gets fired for asking for a raise? I mean, that is not normal. And if that does happen to you, it's most likely of some other underlying factors, where asking for a raise is just the last drop.

> They are not going to offer it to you, normally, because they are not a charity. They want to give you the least amount of money that you will except.

An alternative perspective from my time managing: That reflects the viewpoint of the business, not necessarily the viewpoint of the manager.

Getting an out-of-band raise approved triggers entire internal processes, outside of the control of the immediate manager requesting it.

Triggering one proactively as a manager with no impetus other than "this person deserves it" is likely to get denied or a token amount approved. As you said, the business wants to pay the least amount of money an employee is willing to accept. If the employee has given no indication they have issue with their current pay, the business has no reason to presume there's a need to pay them more.

However, once someone asked for one, I could take that and use it as leverage. If the employee has brought it up, there's evidence of doubt on whether the company is still meeting that minimum threshold. Denying the raise outright increases the risk of attrition, so the business takes it seriously compared to the proactive request from the manager. Then I can use what I know to work the system in the way that results in a far more favorable raise.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#153

Post by brutt »

angarg12 wrote: post #132

I don't own a business, but I have encountered these behaviours at a smaller scale. Now I think about this situation as a variation of the prisoners dilemma. If both parties play nice, each one gets a smaller payoff. If one is an asshole and the other is nice, the asshole gets a bigger payoff (by shafting the nice party). This article proposes that being nice is beneficial for all parties in the long term. That holds…

You assume that all parties have same IQ, same previous experience, equally informed, share same moral values, and share same goal. In this case, yes, they are doing wrong.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#154

Post by dumbfoundded »

koheripbal wrote: post #12

The major flaw in this article is that it does not defined what constitutes "asshole" behavior. There is a difference, for example, between being vindictive towards others, and simply pushing people out of their comfort zone. The term "asshole" is so vague that it borders on useless.

In the context of business, I would frame being an asshole as doing things that benefit yourself at the expense of others. Not being an asshole is doing things that benefit yourself and others.

Let's say you sell some Saas tool. You're an asshole if you try to sell to anyone even if you think it won't help them. You're not an asshole if you truly believe your service will benefit your customers. You're an idiot if you're selling to someone and you can't tell the difference.

I agree that my definition was certainly lacking but I hope this clarifies my intent to separate true assholery with simply being unpleasant to be around.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#155

Post by dumbfoundded »

chinesempire wrote: post #104
dumbfoundded wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost certain that Putin makes tons of money for those immediately around him and as soon as he stops, he'll be replaced. That's generally how dictatorships work.

The money doesn't disappear though and I'm sure the Bush family is still doing well

I've heard that the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. That doesn't mean you should be irrational though. Or if you do, understand that it's a short play. Rationality generally wins.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#156

Post by DoreenMichele »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #149
DoreenMichele wrote: post #144

There are basically two ways to make money: 1. Add value so there is more pie to go around and get your cut of it. 2. Extract value from what already exists. You get yours, but other people tend to get screwed over. If you aren't doing the first, you are probably doing the second. This is not really a good long term strategy.

I appreciate this concise framing. I do think it gets more complicated than this though. Defining the pie gets really complicated. Sometimes you make one pie bigger and another smaller. Companies like Lyft certainly decreased the taxi pie but then made a new one altogether. I believe there are fair ways to extract value from what already exists by creating a better version in a competitive market. Ultimately I think…

I believe there are fair ways to extract value from what already exists by creating a better version in a competitive market.

Adding efficiency is a means to add more pie.

Obviously, my comment is a simplification. It kind of goes without saying that simplifications leave out a lot of nuance and gray zone.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#157

Post by ta1234567890 »

xwdv wrote: post #137
ta1234567890 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. He most likely would have gotten his money back, even without renewing the note, had he accepted a payment plan. Instead, he chose to start a (very costly) legal fight. So far he's probably out $100k+ in legal fees and looking to spend $100-200k more in the new personal lawsuit. The original note was for $250k. I don't think he's ever going to recover the full amount of money he's put into this (not…

Why would he make it so personal? What did you guys do to him?

Great question. We are still trying to figure that out.

We've consulted with multiple lawyers and therapists to try to fully understand the situation.

Two guesses so far:

1) When he "offered" to take over the company, he said he would fire me and keep my cofounder running sales. This whole ordeal also coincidentally started a couple of days after my cofounder said she would be stepping down as CEO (even though he had previously told her he would extend the note). We have the impression he wants to "own" my cofounder somehow (according to an expert in psychopaths that we consulted with, the investor fits the profile - my cofounder is also very pretty and she's had to deal with stalkers multiple times in the past)

2) After the conflict started, we found out this investor apparently had defrauded some people to fund his own company (he currently has open lawsuits about that). If this is true, he might be projecting, believing maybe we did the same to him (which we did not)

But those are just guesses. I wish he would just pick up the phone and we could talk to reach some sort of agreement to end this madness.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#158

Post by airstrike »

inetknght wrote: post #127
airstrike wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I guess Americans think that's fine because "it's just business". That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation.

> That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation. I am an American citizen so you can take it from an American citizen instead. Companies have zero scruples whatsoever about screwing over others in business.

Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced. It's a gross generalization. Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#159

Post by airstrike »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #136
airstrike wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation.

I am American? I am saying that as an American, one that works in America, and from my subjective experience working in b2b and consulting jobs, the business culture around me is full of contractual bullshit.

Being an American doesn't make it any less prejudiced. It's a gross generalization. Even assuming it were true, how is this an exclusive characteristic of America?

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#160

Post by jandrese »

Nrbelex wrote: post #16
azinman2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it wasn’t a genuine mistake?

And if you're sure, did you report this to the relevant disciplinary body?

What, the bar association?

Sleezy as this is you wouldn't be able to show damages since you didn't sign the contract. The other lawyer can claim error and the burden of proof would be on you.

If you did accept, then you have a lengthy court battle ahead where a jury could very well rule "abide by the contract you signed you reneging moocher."

The real world isn't a school playground. Calling a teacher over is time consuming and expensive and far from a guarantee of justice. It is up to you to keep yourself safe from assholes like this by always doing your due diligence. Someone who pulls this kind of shit constantly will eventually lose their license, but many years down the road and after many victims.

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