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Not being an asshole will make you more money

atlassquats.com

141–150 of 314 posts

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#141
> I really don't understand why.

> So many people are straight assholes in business. Especially the more you climb the ladder. As my bootstrapped business reached $3M ARR, a wave of no-name investors approached us. Some of the term sheets more than insulted me. They sought to take control of the company without any payout for the co-founders or employees. They just wanted to capitalize a company they'd now own.

> I don't understand why.

(Warning: Probably unpopular opinion for capitalistic mind sets following)

Well, big surprise, because they got corrupted (ethically) by their money and greed, or that is the way they got a hold of it in the first place. They got some, so they want more. Money buys almost anything in capitalistic society after all. They see a chance to take advantage of a fellow human being, a chance to profit! They do not care about the human in your business. They care about ways they could profit from it. You are only a means of increasing their capital. The higher the amount of money investors have, the more likely, that they got it through ethically questionable means, because that is, where the big money is made.

There might be ethical investors out there too. Haven't knowingly met any such yet, might have unknowingly met some. It is probably also quite difficult to keep a clean sheet through all the complexity of today's financial world.

(perspective change from having a company which others want to invest in, to investments being done by people)

There is a difference between working for a wage and using money to "magically" create more money, fueling turbo capitalism. In many cases that difference is an ethical one: What investments does one make? Can one be sure, that those investments are not actually investments, which flow directly or indirectly into production of weapons, climate destroying big companies, pesticide producing giants, who are responsible for decimating bee populations and starvation in third world countries? Anyone "investing" should really think hard about it and be on the lookout for superficially nice investments, which are actually indirectly quite unethical.

Now I will admit, that there are probably still many ways to make ethical investments. Of course there are. It's just that those are not yielding the highest returns. You could invest in social projects, in green energy/technology, in research for many good things. You can even donate to a good cause (like protection of rain forest) and thereby make an investment into all our future.

Most people, who "invest" in something however, are almost completely after the returns those things yield and do not give a damn about the ethical aspect of that investment. They do not give a thought about indirectly investing in some huge company, which takes part in producing weapons or building the next big coal mine (thinking of a recent example).

Lets take a look at for example DAX (German stock index). Anyone investing in any "financial product" that invests into the top n DAX companies. There we have BASF and Bayer, responsible for producing, selling and lobbying for pesticide usage and killing natural diversity and species, starvation of people in India and forcing farmers to use genetically modified seeds, in the name of profit. We have BMW and Daimler, where at least to my knowledge Daimler is part of the diesel scandal, making people believe their cars were cleaner than they really are, indirectly guilty of dealing huge damage to our environment and health. We have Deutsche Bank and Telekom there as well. Telekom just sucks for being a monopoly (at least was) and keeping technology way behind in Germany. Deutsche bank does not have a good name, when we talk about ethics, although I do not personally know exactly what they did. Probably investments in weapons and stuff like that. And wasn't Adidas connected to child labour in third world countries?

So basically anyone investing in DAX as such invests in these at least partly evil players, knowingly or unknowingly. But people are being scared by people working in banks and other places, who tell them that, if they do not invest into something with more risk, they will not be able to take advantage of those precious percentages at the stock market and then those scared people stop thinking and become investors. Notice also how usually the people, who are consulting you at banks and insurances try to steer you into the direction of stock market backed investments. Usually they will make other options simply look worth, simply based on percentages. That is often, because when you invest into such products of theirs, their company gets more flexibility of investment itself and can do more unethical investments, yielding higher returns for them.

In my opinion anyone investing into anything has a responsibility. That responsibility is not to increase their own riches, but to look out (not only superficially) for any ethically questionable consequences of their investment and even the responsibility to try to make the world a better place with their investment.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation.

I am American? I am saying that as an American, one that works in America, and from my subjective experience working in b2b and consulting jobs, the business culture around me is full of contractual bullshit.

Just think about the larger situation of EULAs and no-competes and arbitration clauses. Everything is hoping you don't read the fine-print, or have no energy to fight it, even to say you haven't read or were mislead and therefore it shouldn't apply.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#144
There are basically two ways to make money:

1. Add value so there is more pie to go around and get your cut of it.

2. Extract value from what already exists. You get yours, but other people tend to get screwed over.

If you aren't doing the first, you are probably doing the second. This is not really a good long term strategy.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#145

A few years ago I started a company, then raised money through convertible notes. By the time the notes were due (2 years), we weren't ready to raise a round yet, so all investors extended their notes. All except one. The investor that didn't want to extend the note was also the CEO of the company that was our largest client, so not only did he call his note, he also ended his company's contract, making a huge hole i…

As a side note. If you are considering raising money through convertible debt:

1) Make sure the contract protects you personally if the company cannot pay the note. For example, make it so the note automatically converts to equity instead, or so a certain % of note holders can force the conversion.

2) Make sure there is nothing in there saying that you or your company have to pay the legal fees of the investor.

3) Get legal services / liability insurance for the founders of the company. This will help ease the financial burden in case of legal issues.

Usually, investors that lend you money have a lot more (legal) ways to go after you than equity investors (shareholders). With good actors this is usually not a problem, but when assholes are involved, you never know.

Also, bankruptcy is expensive. There are 2 types of corporate bankruptcy, Chapter 7 and Chapter 11. Ch 7 will cost you about $20-50k in legal fees, depending on the complexity of the case - bear in mind that after the company files for Ch 7, you have to pay for your own legal fees. Ch 11 is about $100k+ - most lawyers will advise against it unless you have pretty deep pockets.

You can also unwind a company outside of court, but it is a bit risky legally and something you definitely not want to do when there's a potential conflict or a bad actor involved.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 out of the top 15 American billionaires inherited their wealth, that is the secret to wealth, have rich parents.

And 9 out of the top 10 American billionaires are self-made. It's amazing how you can use the same data to argue the opposite point, just on how you frame it.

Ok, we've got:

Jeff Bezos

Bill Gates

Warren Buffett

Mark Zuckerberg

Larry Ellison

Larry Page

Sergey Brin

Michael Bloomberg

Steve Ballmer

Jim Walton

I'll start: Here's my list of the "self-made":

Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison, Michael Bloomberg (although I don't know how he made partner at Bloomberg at 30). Maybe Steve Ballmer. Page and Brin are special cases; they're the children of university professors.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#147

A few years ago I started a company, then raised money through convertible notes. By the time the notes were due (2 years), we weren't ready to raise a round yet, so all investors extended their notes. All except one. The investor that didn't want to extend the note was also the CEO of the company that was our largest client, so not only did he call his note, he also ended his company's contract, making a huge hole i…

Another way put this is that he lent you money to build your company and then paid you money every month as a customer. When the note came due, you couldn't pay.

One possibility that they cancelled their contract not to screw you, but because they felt you were not getting the job done and the future wasn't there for your company. Given that, it would make little sense to extend the note or continue the contract.

As both customer and investor, your vision is not their problem.

Lest you think I'm being to hard on you, I've worked at one startup which went bankrupt in a similar situation (most of the engineering team ended up at working for our biggest customer) and another in which the board fired the CEO, liquidated the bad bits and sold the good bits to one of our customers. In both those cases the founders saw themselves as victims of unscrupulous sharp players, but the reality was that they took other peoples money and were seemingly oblivious to the obligations that entailed.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#148
post #6

Most of the billionaires are assholes and/or criminals with a couple of noteworthy exceptions. So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle but it won't get you all the way to the top of the foodchain. So this is solid advice, but unfortunately the role models are exactly those people that didn't follow this sort of advice. Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Apple, Google and Facebook all would not have bee…

Wait.. are you saying bill gates is an asshole?

Say it ain't so!

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#149

There are basically two ways to make money: 1. Add value so there is more pie to go around and get your cut of it. 2. Extract value from what already exists. You get yours, but other people tend to get screwed over. If you aren't doing the first, you are probably doing the second. This is not really a good long term strategy.

I appreciate this concise framing. I do think it gets more complicated than this though.

Defining the pie gets really complicated. Sometimes you make one pie bigger and another smaller. Companies like Lyft certainly decreased the taxi pie but then made a new one altogether.

I believe there are fair ways to extract value from what already exists by creating a better version in a competitive market. Ultimately I think the value should be defined at the customer and societal levels. The tangents and levels in between make things messy.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#150

I don't own a business, but I have encountered these behaviours at a smaller scale. Now I think about this situation as a variation of the prisoners dilemma. If both parties play nice, each one gets a smaller payoff. If one is an asshole and the other is nice, the asshole gets a bigger payoff (by shafting the nice party). This article proposes that being nice is beneficial for all parties in the long term. That holds…

Sometimes I feel like humans do not understand that we're the prisoners and nature is the police.

Nature does not care about killing us. The universe will feel no remorse if an asteroid kills us all or we do it ourselves with nukes. Corona doesn't feel shame.

We're prisoners in so many ways. When are we going to start cooperating to try to escape our death sentence? Or are we content to fight each other over scraps while we await our fate?

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