Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#281

Post by ulzeraj » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

kome wrote: post #208

socialdemocrat wrote: post #202

I am Norwegian and we seldom use cash as well. I use cash perhaps a couple of times per year. However I am totally against the reliance on electronic payment. Cash should alway be a viable option. Or at least the electronic payment systems we use need to be more robust. I remember from living in the Netherlands that they had a neat system called Chipknip. It was electronic money. So the machines accepting it did not…

fully agree! but i push it even further: i'm for electronic cash, but i'm against some american company (visa, mastercard) to know every transaction of mine. I want public electronic cash. A public, national, non for profit infrastructure that manage cash.

I agree with your opinion about corporations tracking every transaction but I also dread the same situation but with government in place of these corps.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#282

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:13 PM UTC

zoomablemind wrote: post #242

The convenience of electronic payments is obvious. But cashless sounds more like a restriction, indeed inconvenience. Say, one lost a wallet and phone (robbed or just that, lost) and needs to get back home somehow. Public transportation requires an electronic ticket, cab needs card. What's then? Walk to your bank branch, explain to driver the story and pay later, hope a compelled passenger would pay for you? Lending…

[deleted]

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#283

Post by tonyedgecombe » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

LessDmesg wrote: post #214

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government debt as a percentage of GDP is very low in Sweden: https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to...

The thing about Swedish debt is that it's largely local than national: https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subje...

Those figures I linked to don’t distinguish between local and national debt.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#284

Post by SiempreViernes » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

rlv-dan wrote: post #129

johnlorentzson wrote: post #107

I'm Swedish and this stuff makes me really worried. Especially since the main way for two people to exchange small amounts of money is through a proprietary app that uses a proprietary ID system (owned by a for-profit company) that only runs on iOS, Android, Windows and Mac. I really hope this trend dies off, a cash-less society is a terrible idea. I will say, however, that buses not taking cash is perfectly fine. Th…

> buses not taking cash is perfectly fine I guess, if you are ok with leaving an electronic trail whereever you go...

Most people own a mobile phone anyway, so I guess at best you can try hiding that you take the bus to the city rather than a car.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#285

Post by atyppo » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:38 PM UTC

johnlorentzson wrote: post #107

I'm Swedish and this stuff makes me really worried. Especially since the main way for two people to exchange small amounts of money is through a proprietary app that uses a proprietary ID system (owned by a for-profit company) that only runs on iOS, Android, Windows and Mac. I really hope this trend dies off, a cash-less society is a terrible idea. I will say, however, that buses not taking cash is perfectly fine. Th…

I'm not Swedish -- how is this being accomplished? By way of legislation? Here in NYC, Metrocard data can be obtained by LE or the DA. A new fare payment system currently being implemented is presumably even easier to track people.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#286

Post by petre » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

jcbrand wrote: post #272

robert_foss wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a Swede, who now lives in Germany I would say that there must be a middle ground between the extreme cash dependency of Germany and the opposite in Sweden. I have no idea how you do your shopping and end up not getting a pool of useless 1/5 cent coins. People literally laugh you in the face if you try to purchase things with them. Your only option is to give them away or collect them in a jar. And needing to co…

I live in Germany and routinely use one and two cent coins when paying exact amounts. Still have to experience someone laughing in my face for doing so.

Holding up the queue, eh?

I use € coins for tips or cereal bar purchases. In my country you'd get odd looks if you did that, because we have a bill that's roughly equivalent to 1€. But in Germany or Austria you'll get smiles and herzlichen grüßen because sparing-inclined citizens of the aforementioned countries only tip small change like 10 or 20 cents. Doing it often enough at a Greek tavern gets you freebies.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#287

Post by jfengel » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

jotm wrote: post #259

ACS_Solver wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Sweden for nearly 10 years, and the whole cashless aspect is really something I've embraced. Cashless payments dominated even 10 years ago, but I've also seen a massive change in the past 2-3 years with places no longer accepting cash. Grocery shops still do, but most restaurants, takeout places and cafes are cashless. On the contrary, I find myself irritated in Germany where cash is required. The main…

> places no longer accepting cash Is that legal? I believe in most countries national currency most be accepted in any form, by law...

It's not true in the US or the Eurozone. The "legal tender" requirement is for debts, not for purchases. A store can simply refuse to sell you the thing if you insist on paying cash.

There are movements in both places to require merchants to accept cash, but I don't know of any countries that have adopted them yet. (Some cities in the US have.)

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#288

Post by bryal » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

johnlorentzson wrote: post #107

I'm Swedish and this stuff makes me really worried. Especially since the main way for two people to exchange small amounts of money is through a proprietary app that uses a proprietary ID system (owned by a for-profit company) that only runs on iOS, Android, Windows and Mac. I really hope this trend dies off, a cash-less society is a terrible idea. I will say, however, that buses not taking cash is perfectly fine. Th…

At least Open Banking (PSD2) will allow for third party alternatives to Swish and banking apps. Maybe even open-source applications will become possible, but getting a PSD2 license as an open-source developer may be tricky.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#289

Post by mrep » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

robert_foss wrote: post #204

smichel17 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you, but spending time in Germany has changed my view on coins. See, in the US, coins are kind of useless on their own. You can't pay for anything with only coins, so giving exact change is always an extra step on top of paying with cash. Ugh. But in the EU, they have €1 and €2 coins, and it's difficult to overstate how much this changes the dynamic. It means that for purchase…

Being a Swede, who now lives in Germany I would say that there must be a middle ground between the extreme cash dependency of Germany and the opposite in Sweden. I have no idea how you do your shopping and end up not getting a pool of useless 1/5 cent coins. People literally laugh you in the face if you try to purchase things with them. Your only option is to give them away or collect them in a jar. And needing to co…

Ending up with useless coins is also super prevalent in the states because tax isn't included in list price and everyone prices things as $X.99 so you always end up with useless change. Super annoying and I wish they would change the law to force list prices to be the final price all things included (no hidden fees either).

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#290

Post by yxhuvud » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #94

codr7 wrote: post #66

I recently moved back to Sweden after living 4 years in Germany. I don't have any cards, and I don't carry a "smart"phone anymore; in Germany this didn't cause any trouble at all and I was far from alone. Much of the current Swedish society is currently closed to me, I know of three shops and one cafe in the (200k people) city center that accept cash. Some of it has been gradual but it changed dramatically during the…

There are real problems, too. One day Swedbank had an outage on their payment systems for more than 24 hours, and this is a bank that has a significant part of the country as customers (I'm just guessing, but it's above 10% for sure). People couldn't pay for anything, couldn't buy train tickets (all digital). The outage was so big that the train companies had to let commuters go without tickets, so at least those peo…

I expect that just like people should have some cash at home to handle emergencies, people will start to have an extra card at a different bank to be able to better resist outages like this (as well as blocked cards).