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Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

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Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#111
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't know if it's the difference between “resident” and “citizen”, but i was told “no” or “maybe in a few weeks” many times when trying to open a bank account in October/November last year in Germany. “Maybe in a few weeks” is as good as a refusal.

I've lived two years in Germany and hung out with lots of foreigners. Not only tech employees with high and steady incomes, but also freelancers or people on working holiday visas, working part-time at bars and restaurants. Between big commercial banks and savings banks, online banks (comdirect, ING, DKB, ...) and challengers like N26, I've never met anyone who had trouble opening a bank account. Americans didn't hav…

How are the KYC requirements handled in Germany? What sort of documentation do you need to open a bank account?

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#112
post #66

I recently moved back to Sweden after living 4 years in Germany. I don't have any cards, and I don't carry a "smart"phone anymore; in Germany this didn't cause any trouble at all and I was far from alone. Much of the current Swedish society is currently closed to me, I know of three shops and one cafe in the (200k people) city center that accept cash. Some of it has been gradual but it changed dramatically during the…

I've lived in Sweden for nearly 10 years, and the whole cashless aspect is really something I've embraced. Cashless payments dominated even 10 years ago, but I've also seen a massive change in the past 2-3 years with places no longer accepting cash. Grocery shops still do, but most restaurants, takeout places and cafes are cashless. On the contrary, I find myself irritated in Germany where cash is required. The main…

What does a cashless society do when the power/internet/etc. goes out (whether due to a natural disaster or otherwise)?

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is out of date. In large parts of central Stockholm, you can't pay by cash. Legal tender is just words, if they don't take cash there's not much you can do.

So how do poor people function in a cashless society?

In China, street beggars will have a sign with their QR code so you can donate to them electronically.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#114
post #66

I recently moved back to Sweden after living 4 years in Germany. I don't have any cards, and I don't carry a "smart"phone anymore; in Germany this didn't cause any trouble at all and I was far from alone. Much of the current Swedish society is currently closed to me, I know of three shops and one cafe in the (200k people) city center that accept cash. Some of it has been gradual but it changed dramatically during the…

I've lived in Sweden for nearly 10 years, and the whole cashless aspect is really something I've embraced. Cashless payments dominated even 10 years ago, but I've also seen a massive change in the past 2-3 years with places no longer accepting cash. Grocery shops still do, but most restaurants, takeout places and cafes are cashless. On the contrary, I find myself irritated in Germany where cash is required. The main…

>I refuse to own any store loyalty cards because they give the store an exact list of what I buy, tied to my identity, which is a much bigger privacy threat.

You're engaging in self delusion if you think the almost uniformly cashless payment systems you embrace in Sweden don't already cause this to be the case about you down to the minutest level: with your payments, where you make them, what you buy, when, and a very fine-grained general profile of your daily activities and movements (paying digitally in any phyiscal location obviously ties you to said location at a certain place and time). It's almost absurd that you even mention concerns about "potential" privacy invasions while claiming the system you live in is in any way a good thing, just because it's convenient. None of this is to mention the problems it could cause if some sort of major disaster occurs or a data breach somewhere in the chain causes part or all of your entire history of payments to become commodity data should anyone ever want to use it against you in some way..

Not to mention the potential future ramifications of paternalistic or authoritarian government policies being used to "guide" your buying habits and personal life through a near total capacity to access your purchase history, and then tying this to regulatory "incentives". It would be all too easy for a government to implement something like this under the right circumstances if the entire consumer economy is already cashless and run through large institutions. That you think this isn't a problem indicates a deep blindness to just how important fundamental privacy via untraceable payments on a basic level is to any society that does value a modicum of breathing space for a sincerely private life.

Also, there's a vast margin of difference between some bank or other third party guessing where you shop with cash because of your address and them knowing exactly what you bought and where by (very easily) monitoring your digital payment activities.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the German government that made lists did so without credit card records or electronic ids or anything like that...

It wasn't fully manual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

I never thought I'd see "IBM" and "holocaust" in the same sentence, but here I am.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#116
post #75
post #66

I recently moved back to Sweden after living 4 years in Germany. I don't have any cards, and I don't carry a "smart"phone anymore; in Germany this didn't cause any trouble at all and I was far from alone. Much of the current Swedish society is currently closed to me, I know of three shops and one cafe in the (200k people) city center that accept cash. Some of it has been gradual but it changed dramatically during the…

I pay more often with cash today than some years ago, as a statement. Interestingly, if you talk about cash in Sweden the comments you will get tend to be very hostile. It's like talking about meat in a vegan community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#117
post #42

In Norway, next to Sweden, accepting cash is mandatory and you can get fined (after a warning it seems) if you don't. The reasoning is we don't want everything to break down just because the power grid or backbone networks breaks down.

Looks like I know where I'm going if Sweden turns to shit.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Sweden for nearly 10 years, and the whole cashless aspect is really something I've embraced. Cashless payments dominated even 10 years ago, but I've also seen a massive change in the past 2-3 years with places no longer accepting cash. Grocery shops still do, but most restaurants, takeout places and cafes are cashless. On the contrary, I find myself irritated in Germany where cash is required. The main…

What does a cashless society do when the power/internet/etc. goes out (whether due to a natural disaster or otherwise)?

Cash is not very useful if the power is out either, as for internet you just have to make it as reliable as power.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived two years in Germany and hung out with lots of foreigners. Not only tech employees with high and steady incomes, but also freelancers or people on working holiday visas, working part-time at bars and restaurants. Between big commercial banks and savings banks, online banks (comdirect, ING, DKB, ...) and challengers like N26, I've never met anyone who had trouble opening a bank account. Americans didn't hav…

How are the KYC requirements handled in Germany? What sort of documentation do you need to open a bank account?

You should not need more than an ID and the certificate of registration from your municipality.

Some online banks outsource this process to the Post: https://www.deutschepost.de/en/p/postident.html

I'm not sure how N26 does it these days, at the time it was over videochat. I believe it's just a picture of your ID and a selfie now?

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#120
How do tourists pay for things in Sweden? Especially smaller value things.

One of the most inconvenient aspects about visiting China is paying for small things. Large department stores and high end restaurants will accept foreign credit cards, but mom and pop stores don’t.

While most still accept cash, sometimes the smaller stores or street vendors won’t have enough for change and you have to wait for them to get it. A few times I even got a discount when they couldn’t give me exact change.

I installed WeChat and AliPay last time I visited, but the payments don’t work if you don’t have a local number, ID, or bank account.

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