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Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

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Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#41

Post by yellow_postit »

onion2k wrote: post #33
techsupporter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

Why, other than your privacy? Businesses that don't accept cash don't make any money when the infrastructure fails. If your revenue is dependent on your PoS device, Wi-Fi, ISP, payment provider, the payment provider's network infrastructure, banking network, and more that's a lot of risk. For most independent businesses having a working cash register and a bank account that enables cash deposits would be a better opt…

Storing carbon copies of credit cards is something still supported for when the network goes down, see “credit card imprinter”

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#43

Post by username90 »

Svip wrote: post #27
jopsen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that if you take away cash the sketchy side of the economy might switch to euros or dollar :) But that won't work for shops trying to avoid taxes. It'll also make it much harder to buy stuff from criminals, as you would have to go get cash somewhere. What other cash exchanges still happens?

Tourists, I'd imagine. I am not sure how many merchants you know in Sweden that accepts UnionPay? At least of the smaller ones. And I know most German tourists prefer cash, generally any tourist from a cash heavy society will prefer cash. Sure, their big ticket items are still going to be hotels and the like, where they will pay with a credit card, but they are not interested in coming if they can pay the small merch…

When I travel abroad I just use my mastercard, why doesn't that work for them? I don't know anyone without a mastercard or a visa.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#44

Post by onion2k »

yellow_postit wrote: post #41
onion2k wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, other than your privacy? Businesses that don't accept cash don't make any money when the infrastructure fails. If your revenue is dependent on your PoS device, Wi-Fi, ISP, payment provider, the payment provider's network infrastructure, banking network, and more that's a lot of risk. For most independent businesses having a working cash register and a bank account that enables cash deposits would be a better opt…

Storing carbon copies of credit cards is something still supported for when the network goes down, see “credit card imprinter”

That depends on where you live.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#45

Post by alkonaut »

We aren’t (Weren’t) rebelling. There isn’t even a debate about it. I still haven’t used cash in years. Certainly not since the 2018 of the article.

We really need “digital cash”, ie a government backed digital currency that can be used with the convenience of cards but with the anonymity (at the point of sale) of cash.

I don’t believe in regular non-state cryptocurrencies for various reasons, not least because anonymity of all transactions isn’t really desirable in a high tax welfare state with high trust that people pay taxes.

The Swedish central back is working on it, so maybe this is not too far away. One should be aware though that “digital cash“ doesn’t solve all the problems, it’s not as resilient technically as paper cash.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#46

Post by jks »

Svip wrote: post #31
jbergens wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are newer solutions like iZettle for cards that costs less. In Sweden we also have Swish, payment by smartphone without cards, but that is also a bit harder for older people.

I've encountered one merchant in Denmark using iZettle. He has since replaced it with the regular PoS. I can only imagine that is more expensive for him, but I wonder why he abandoned iZettle? Maybe it doesn't work that well? I am honestly wondering why I don't see more usage of iZettle. It could just be a Danish thing. And yes, there is Swish/MobilePay, but that only really works if you're local. A tourist - even on…

We have MobilePay in Finland, but I don't know if it interoperates with the Danish system. Denmark is part of the Single Euro Payments Area, so I would expect transfers to be possible.

There were iZettles in many Helsinki cafés a few years ago, but it seems to me that most of them have been replaced by normal PoS terminals.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#47

Post by bryanrasmussen »

username90 wrote: post #38
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when you lose your card because you have a problem keeping track of physical objects do you then just go to the bank and they use the card replacing machine to issue you a new one right on the spot? That's pretty cool, I wish we had something like that here in Denmark because wow, I lose my card a lot and I have to go weeks without one. One time I lost my card, ordered a new one, the card arrived but the pin code…

If you really lose your card that often why don't you just order two to begin with? You'd have to take precautions like this even with normal money, since if you misplaced your monthly allowance you'd still be out for several weeks.

I guess I never thought about ordering two cards, probably like most people I like to think it won't happen again.

If I am using cash I don't carry all the cash available to me all the time, so if I lose some cash it is not quite the same as losing my method of accessing money.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#48

Post by Svip »

username90 wrote: post #43
Svip wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists, I'd imagine. I am not sure how many merchants you know in Sweden that accepts UnionPay? At least of the smaller ones. And I know most German tourists prefer cash, generally any tourist from a cash heavy society will prefer cash. Sure, their big ticket items are still going to be hotels and the like, where they will pay with a credit card, but they are not interested in coming if they can pay the small merch…

When I travel abroad I just use my mastercard, why doesn't that work for them? I don't know anyone without a mastercard or a visa.

Where do you travel? There are plenty of countries I've been to that don't accept any foreign cards. Unless you only go to the fancy hotels and restaurants, I suppose. But if you actually want to interact with small merchants abroad, you need cash.

I never travel abroad without cash, and that includes when I travel to Sweden.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#49

Post by exitheone »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #25
username90 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have bank accounts and debit cards like everyone else? In Sweden everyone can get Visa and Mastercard debit cards so you can even do internet purchases everywhere with them. If you mean how they transfer money between each other, they just use smart phones and Swish. Beggars even ask for money that way.

And when you lose your card because you have a problem keeping track of physical objects do you then just go to the bank and they use the card replacing machine to issue you a new one right on the spot? That's pretty cool, I wish we had something like that here in Denmark because wow, I lose my card a lot and I have to go weeks without one. One time I lost my card, ordered a new one, the card arrived but the pin code…

I have two cards in two separate locations + my phone bound to the same account for mobile payments.

Circumstances would have to become pretty extreme for all of these to disappear at the same time.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#50

Post by vnorilo »

Svip wrote: post #31
jbergens wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are newer solutions like iZettle for cards that costs less. In Sweden we also have Swish, payment by smartphone without cards, but that is also a bit harder for older people.

I've encountered one merchant in Denmark using iZettle. He has since replaced it with the regular PoS. I can only imagine that is more expensive for him, but I wonder why he abandoned iZettle? Maybe it doesn't work that well? I am honestly wondering why I don't see more usage of iZettle. It could just be a Danish thing. And yes, there is Swish/MobilePay, but that only really works if you're local. A tourist - even on…

At least here in Finland, I associate iZettle with artisans, coffee stands, small farmers and ad hoc store fronts. Cheap and cheerful. Not that I mind it as a customer, but could be an image thing.
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