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People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

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Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#611

Post by sjwright »

crispyambulance wrote: post #575
multiplegeorges wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a very misleading summary of the results. Here are some actual quote from the study: > Ten respondents moved from unemployment to employment while 32 moved from employment to unemployment. Of the participants who moved from employment to unemployment, 13 (40.6%) enrolled in full-time education during the pilot with the intention of re-entering the labour market later as more qualified workers. Almost half…

> Sounds like a success to me. I like the concept too, but we have to be careful what we wish for. If, somehow, UBI becomes real there will be a huge push from the libertarians and far-right to dismantle whatever is left of the social safety net. They actually would love the idea of replacing medicare, social security and other programs with a quick 1000/month that would enable even more shrinking of government.

Medicare isn’t going anywhere. Once people get the taste for single payer healthcare, they don't give it up.

Social security should be replaced with privately held accounts, just like superannuation in Australia. But in the transition people would need to be paid out their entitlement. So no problem there.

But if UBI replaced all normal welfare (excluding disability etc) is that such a bad thing? As long as the UBI is high enough and indexed to cost of living, welfare that’s broadly targeted at the poor should be unnecessary. Not just unnecessary, it tends to have the effect of making poverty stickier. Any time benefits are inversely tied to how well you're doing, you reduce the incentive to do better.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#612

Post by take_a_breath »

76543210 wrote: post #523
take_a_breath wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What outcomes are basically identical? Could you share the study you seem to be citing? Kids go to school around age 5, but I'm not sure that is the end of child rearing.

There are lots of studies/stories. Google "identical twins separated at birth" Once a kid is in school, a parent can work. Removing the need for UBI.

I'm not going to do the leg work to validate unsourced claims that you made, but I will assume you don't have kids based on your comments.

It's possible that things are more complex than you suggest (or realize). One simple example is the typical start/end time for school. In Houston (a random example, but a very large school district), this is the school schedule [1]:

* 7:30 a.m. - 2:50 p.m. for elementary schools and K-8 campuses

How well does that schedule fit with a typical job?

[1] https://blogs.houstonisd.org/news/2018/01/10/hisd-to-standar...

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#613

Post by togs »

rmah wrote: post #161
hinkley wrote: post #129

I want UBI and a 30-32 hour work week, so I guess I’m proposing a 20% “disincentivization”. Would fewer people in the workforce really be so bad? What’s the carbon and water footprint of all of these goods we really don’t need but we bust our humps for anyway? At this point, more robots don’t mean more of the stuff we need. they mean more stuff we don't need.

To use different phrasing, what you're saying is that you want people to be poorer. Please understand that I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, your beliefs or philosophy. But from a different perspective, that really is what you're saying. Do you really want to say that? Perhaps a better alternative is: a good goal would be to allow people to have more while using less natural resources and polluting the e…

I think you’re too hasty to assume OP thinks they should be unemployed AND have no income.

Anyways I agree that we need to work less.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#614

Post by felipemnoa »

sunshinerag wrote: post #547
zazaalaza wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. With a permanent UBI in place you can throw all these studies out the window.

Exactly people would behave differently if they knew it was permanent vs temporary.

So, look at the people that win $1k a week for life and see how that turns out.

https://nylottery.ny.gov/scratch-off/two-dollar/win-life

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#615

Post by easytiger »

mola wrote: post #433
easytiger wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea sure. No one ever blew a fortune

It's rare. How you are born pretty much sets your future in stone. Those rags to riches stories and vice versa are the outliers

And?

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#616

Post by eeZah7Ux »

zazaalaza wrote: post #512
jpttsn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the participants knew the study was temporary and invested the money in a job they knew they’d need after the study.

Exactly. With a permanent UBI in place you can throw all these studies out the window.

While this is technically true, it's also true for every other political changes.

All human behaviors are affected by knowing that something is going to end soon or not.

Yet, UBI is often held under strict scrutiny. While the status quo is not challenged in the same way.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#617

Post by bavell »

crispyambulance wrote: post #575
multiplegeorges wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a very misleading summary of the results. Here are some actual quote from the study: > Ten respondents moved from unemployment to employment while 32 moved from employment to unemployment. Of the participants who moved from employment to unemployment, 13 (40.6%) enrolled in full-time education during the pilot with the intention of re-entering the labour market later as more qualified workers. Almost half…

> Sounds like a success to me. I like the concept too, but we have to be careful what we wish for. If, somehow, UBI becomes real there will be a huge push from the libertarians and far-right to dismantle whatever is left of the social safety net. They actually would love the idea of replacing medicare, social security and other programs with a quick 1000/month that would enable even more shrinking of government.

I mean, part of the allure of UBI to me is that it is a social safety net except it benefits everyone. Because it's universal and not means-tested, it removes the stigma of being 'on welfare' which IMO is incredibly discouraging and makes it harder to rise out of your unfortunate situation. So yes, I would love if UBI replaced some programs while augments others.

At the end of the day it's the most direct and effective way of combating poverty and goes a long way towards closing the wealth gap. Especially when we can divert those funds from corporations into the hands of the people.

I do generally favor shrinking the government but not at the expense of the people's safety, liberty or well-being.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#618

Post by hitpointdrew »

tic_tac wrote: post #603
multiplegeorges wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a very misleading summary of the results. Here are some actual quote from the study: > Ten respondents moved from unemployment to employment while 32 moved from employment to unemployment. Of the participants who moved from employment to unemployment, 13 (40.6%) enrolled in full-time education during the pilot with the intention of re-entering the labour market later as more qualified workers. Almost half…

The point of UBI is not to fund people's vanity adventures in education. It's to support people who would otherwise be starving or homeless without a job. Regarding "sickness", the severity is important to know. If UBI enables people with slight depression issues to just give up working entirely, UBI could be entirely counterproductive by accelerating depression's spirals of inactivity. And this completely ignored th…

> The point of UBI is not to fund people's vanity adventures in education.

That is YOUR OPINION of what UBI should be. It happens to be wrong.

What people do with the money isn't the point of UBI at all. The point is to improve their lives, and boost the economy. Who cares what specific the money is spent on if it is making people healthier, less stressed, and happier?

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#619

Post by trianglem »

tic_tac wrote: post #603
multiplegeorges wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a very misleading summary of the results. Here are some actual quote from the study: > Ten respondents moved from unemployment to employment while 32 moved from employment to unemployment. Of the participants who moved from employment to unemployment, 13 (40.6%) enrolled in full-time education during the pilot with the intention of re-entering the labour market later as more qualified workers. Almost half…

The point of UBI is not to fund people's vanity adventures in education. It's to support people who would otherwise be starving or homeless without a job. Regarding "sickness", the severity is important to know. If UBI enables people with slight depression issues to just give up working entirely, UBI could be entirely counterproductive by accelerating depression's spirals of inactivity. And this completely ignored th…

Of course the UBI is for personal growth and development even if it isn’t a guaranteed success. People have a fallback and would be more likely to take risks.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#620

Post by hitpointdrew »

crispyambulance wrote: post #575
multiplegeorges wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a very misleading summary of the results. Here are some actual quote from the study: > Ten respondents moved from unemployment to employment while 32 moved from employment to unemployment. Of the participants who moved from employment to unemployment, 13 (40.6%) enrolled in full-time education during the pilot with the intention of re-entering the labour market later as more qualified workers. Almost half…

> Sounds like a success to me. I like the concept too, but we have to be careful what we wish for. If, somehow, UBI becomes real there will be a huge push from the libertarians and far-right to dismantle whatever is left of the social safety net. They actually would love the idea of replacing medicare, social security and other programs with a quick 1000/month that would enable even more shrinking of government.

> enable even more shrinking of government.

Nothing wrong with that. The government is severely bloated. Also nothing wrong with reducing or replacing horrid, administratively wasteful, degrading, stigmatized, means-tested social safety nets with UBI.

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