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People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

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Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#541

Post by simoninnes »

danans wrote: post #515
zazaalaza wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI would reorient the idea of work in the sense that new generations won't think about work the way we do, for them it will be something that you can do, not something you have to do. Similarly how sport is today, you can do sports but you don't have to. Also with UBI you are guaranteed a certain amount of income for the duration of your life. You can go to a bank and take a loan against your UBI. A big portion of t…

> You can go to a bank and take a loan against your UBI. Basically a government subsidy for loans. Trying to figure out how this would work. Presumably a bank would only lend a portion of the UBI to you

Quite simple, you'd borrow a lump sum and the bank would accept on the basis you have a guaranteed income and therefore able to make the repayments.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#542

Post by battery_cowboy »

zazaalaza wrote: post #512
jpttsn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the participants knew the study was temporary and invested the money in a job they knew they’d need after the study.

Exactly. With a permanent UBI in place you can throw all these studies out the window.

[citation needed]

Is that anything but conjecture? I see a study showing that UBI is a "good thing", and you didn't provide a source for your reasoning.

Edit: to all those saying that the parent comment is straightforward, or common sense, or whatever, it's not straightforward or common sense because I disagree that UBI would be a failure. No one knows what would happen under UBI, but these types of studies give some evidence as to what is going to happen.

Everyone saying the parent is correct is basically similar to saying we should stop studying fusion because it's common sense we'll never achieve it (there are people who say that, too).

It's a good first step to study this, at least, and goes to show we need to test UBI on a greater scale.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#543

Post by mfer »

vharuck wrote: post #492
mfer wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know and know of many people who don't want to work or contribute to society. Sitting at home and not contributing to society is kind of a goal. Some groups are negative to those who try to work or contribute. I know families who have passed that on from parents to children. This isn't everyone but it is a segment. I don't see much talk about this. The folks in this segment aren't bound to be on HN. I point this ou…

I don't think an economic system should be used as a blunt weapon to punish perceived immorality.

I added my comment as a data point. One that I find is often overlooked or not talked about. How that data point is considered is something else.

As for how an economic system considers perceives immorality is a long winded conversation. Which economic system? What are rewards vs weapons in that economic system? For example, an economic system could reward work with money and not make money a given. Part of the idea is to look at rewards and how they work in a culture as well.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#544

Post by simoninnes »

graeme wrote: post #494
munk-a wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently have intense income inequality in the world - pretty sure we can shave some off the top and the middle to help everyone live a healthier life.

Wealth isn’t fungible like that. A lot of recent wealth inequality was stocks rising. That doesn’t mean that food production went up, or that more houses get built cheaper, or that new doctors are cloned, or anything of the sort. It just means stocks went up. Most of the economy is people providing stuff to other people, or working to import stuff. If people don’t work, you don’t get the stuff they provide. To a cert…

In other words, asset values are entirely conceptual and depend on a raft of parameters.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#545

Post by hinkley »

Proziam wrote: post #203
regularfry wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming the additional 10-20 hours is a meaningful competitive advantage. That's not a given.

Anecdote incoming. I work double full time and have done so for approaching a decade. It's definitely proven to be a significant competitive advantage in my case. I don't know too many folks who could have comfortably retired in their 20s (that didn't grow up with generational wealth). Still, I've seen many folks in esports do crazy workloads and get nowhere fast. So there's more to the formula than just pouring in m…

Most of American management cannot tell the difference between motion and progress.

While I don't want to dismiss your extra effort as improving your results, I suspect that the value placed on your behavior by management may have been out of proportion with objective truth.

I'm also concerned with whether you were Defecting, in a Prisoner's Dilemma sense. Management always sets unreasonable deadlines as long as anybody agrees with them. Only when people are unanimous that this is crazy do they ever seem to back off.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#546

Post by Proziam »

munk-a wrote: post #532
Proziam wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could have worked twice as many hours and made twice as much money - would you? That was the position I found myself in, and that's how I got where I am. I never claimed to have a secret skill.

1. It would have been physically impossible for me to do so since I was already working 10-12 hour days pretty often and without sleep I'd be worthless. 2. Double income isn't necessarily that much income, if you're making 35k giving up sleeping to get 70k seems like a pretty poor trade. Also, no, never. I would never work twice as many hours (assuming we're taking a base number of hours between 6 and 8) for twice th…

I suppose everyone's situation is different. I was self-employed and had the opportunity to just work more and earn more at the time. The luck part of that equation is that I wasn't earning 35k, but I'm sure there are people on this forum earning more than I was at peak regardless.

I personally really enjoy working, and never felt that working 80+ hours was a burden. To be honest I actually look forward to getting up and getting to it most days.

With all that said, the growth I had just wouldn't have been possible on 40 hours a week of work. So I credit the long hours with the creation of a lot of the luck and opportunity I experienced in my life.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#547

Post by sunshinerag »

zazaalaza wrote: post #512
jpttsn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the participants knew the study was temporary and invested the money in a job they knew they’d need after the study.

Exactly. With a permanent UBI in place you can throw all these studies out the window.

Exactly people would behave differently if they knew it was permanent vs temporary.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#548

Post by saint_fiasco »

free652 wrote: post #475
saint_fiasco wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone sane want to live in NYC anyway, if UBI was a thing? People move to big cities with expensive housing because that's where the well paying jobs are.

Sane? Like a great-grandmother? Would be she insane to live in NYC where is her whole family?

The combined disposable income of an entire family should be enough to afford housing for one great grandmother. UBI probably won't help or hurt her at all.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#549

Post by Revery »

battery_cowboy wrote: post #542
zazaalaza wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. With a permanent UBI in place you can throw all these studies out the window.

[citation needed] Is that anything but conjecture? I see a study showing that UBI is a "good thing", and you didn't provide a source for your reasoning. Edit: to all those saying that the parent comment is straightforward, or common sense, or whatever, it's not straightforward or common sense because I disagree that UBI would be a failure. No one knows what would happen under UBI, but these types of studies give some…

I think his statement that these UBI experiments yield little insight into how actual UBI could play out full-scale holds water without a source.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#550

Post by hinkley »

Proziam wrote: post #528
munk-a wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, congrats, but if you retired comfortably in your 20s you got crazy lucky - that kind of rapid wealth acquisition isn't skill based. I used to work in the game industry getting peanuts for the same hours, we made amazing things in crunch that I am proud of, but when we started to scale back hours our product got even better because we lowered the stress and increased the healthiness of our workplace.

If you could have worked twice as many hours and made twice as much money - would you? That was the position I found myself in, and that's how I got where I am. I never claimed to have a secret skill.

"Man.

Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.

Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.

And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present;

the result being that he does not live in the present or the future;

he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

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