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Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#331

Post by jamii »

Groxx wrote: post #22
acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…

In the UK healthcare related costs are extracted from income tax. The monthly cost depends on your income:

£12k (grad student, trainee) - £62 per month £24k (young professional) - £114 per month £60k (moderately wealthy) - £318 per month

The average price is probably near your lower bound but the fact that it scales with income means that you aren't a slave to your workplace. You can quit your job and start a business without fear of crippling medical costs.

(Source is http://wheredoesmymoneygo.org/)

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#332

Post by danssig »

tptacek wrote: post #207
damoncali wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people don't like to admit is that free markets don't work for healthcare. What is the price you're willing to pay for curing that tumor in your gut? Everything you have. There is no supply vs. demand. Only supply vs infinity. What would happen to the food market were it not for the generally high supply of food? It wouldn't be pretty. Because of that, some sort of non-market intervention is simply unavoidable.…

This is a weird summary of how "free markets" and "supply and demand" work. Yes, you will pay everything you have for a cure. But the guy who will offer you a cure for "everything you have minus one dollar" is going to get your business.

What are we discussing here? Do you not know the difference between elastic and inelastic markets? Health Care cannot ever be a free market because it is utterly inelastic.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#333

Post by danssig »

maxharris wrote: post #309
damoncali wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people don't like to admit is that free markets don't work for healthcare. What is the price you're willing to pay for curing that tumor in your gut? Everything you have. There is no supply vs. demand. Only supply vs infinity. What would happen to the food market were it not for the generally high supply of food? It wouldn't be pretty. Because of that, some sort of non-market intervention is simply unavoidable.…

Few will admit that we don't have anything close to a free market in healthcare today (or for the past several decades). A truly free market is one unfettered by the FDA, medicare, medicaid, doctor regulations, hospital regulations, HMO regulations, insurance regulations, etc. All of these controls were ostensibly put in place to protect patients, but in actuality they serve to slow innovation and true access to medi…

For someone who puts so much faith in free markets you don't appear to understand how they work. In your studies, look up "market elasticity" for a clue.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#334

Post by danssig »

speleding wrote: post #325
damoncali wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people don't like to admit is that free markets don't work for healthcare. What is the price you're willing to pay for curing that tumor in your gut? Everything you have. There is no supply vs. demand. Only supply vs infinity. What would happen to the food market were it not for the generally high supply of food? It wouldn't be pretty. Because of that, some sort of non-market intervention is simply unavoidable.…

> free markets don't work for healthcare Healthcare can be broken up into a lot of smaller markets, and for a lot of those the free market works just fine. The market for coffee in the cafeteria of the hospital works fine as a free market. Do you know what percentage of healthcare cost pertain to the cost of the actual treatment itself? (hint: it's a very small part)

Could you please cite somewhere in the world where the free market is working for health care? Every other first world country either has socialized medicine or a tightly regulated health industry.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#335

Post by danssig »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #42
acabal wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my good friends is a mechanical engineer, young, single, and healthy, but with a thyroid problem. He requires pills every day for the rest of his life. He would not be able to afford those pills for long without insurance if he quit his cube job and tried to innovate in his field: high efficiency engines and biofuels. These aren't imaginary people.

I haven't had health insurance in over 10 years. I get sick, my family loses everything. During that time I've been self-employed and worked on several startups. You think telling me a story about your friend is somehow going to enlighten me on the subject of health insurance? How many anecdotes would we need to share to gain any ground in this discussion?

So it sounds like you're a person who doesn't mind putting his family at risk to chase a dream that has horrible odds of coming true.

The best part is: this risk is completely unnecessary. No other first world country puts this kind of risk on its citizens, and health care costs less in all of them.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#337

Post by danssig »

danbmil99 wrote: post #299

Can anyone shed some light on the oft-repeated "let them compete across state lines" conservative argument? Is there any chance that less regulation could actually foster some healthy competition?

No, health care is an inelastic market. A free market is not the best way to handle health care (which is why no other first world country even tries to).

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#338

Post by gmazzotti »

Groxx wrote: post #22
acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…

In my country (Uruguay) if you pay for medical treatment outside the health insurance cost are not cheaper than in US, but health insurance cost between 50-80 dollars a month and are "all you can eat" insurances (regulated by the state in the cost they charge each month and in the amount of services they include), of course when you are ill and need of they service they loose money, but they win every month you don´t use it or you just use them 2 times in a year to give you a prescription to flu medicine, as the vast majority of people never has really expensive treatments, they are profitable companies

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#339

Post by bodhi »

nerfhammer wrote: post #291
netcan wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian private health insurance isn't necessarily a good comparison for two reasons. First, it's a complimentary insurance meaning that it's for extras that people otherwise pay out of pocket or go without like dental, private hospital rooms, etc. It doesn't cover the really expensive unpredictable things like major surgery, cancer treatment. The basics (eg GP visits) and the big expenses are covered by medicare.…

I also looked at insurance intended for non-Australians living in Australia (not covered at all by national insurance) and found prices to be pretty much the same

You may or may not know, but non-Australians living in Australia are covered by Medicare (depending on your visa type), so that could explain the similar pricing.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#340

Post by jacobolus »

haploid wrote: post #48
jacobolus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That makes it a political article. Expressing political opinions has been the entire point of the New York Times ’s op-ed page for 40 years. What did you expect?

I believe he expected that it wouldn't make it to HN, given the assumed, and sometimes enforced, focus of the site.

Okay, but the way he said it (now deleted) came across as “Well, I was reading along and the article seemed great, but then I was blindsided by the call to action at the end.” Maybe what he really meant was “We shouldn’t ever link or discuss op-eds, period.” I disagree, but if so, he should have just said that.
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