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Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#291

Post by nerfhammer »

netcan wrote: post #186
nerfhammer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out how much private insurance costs in Australia: http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/dynamic/healthfundlist.aspx Most plans are around A$100/month or less

Australian private health insurance isn't necessarily a good comparison for two reasons. First, it's a complimentary insurance meaning that it's for extras that people otherwise pay out of pocket or go without like dental, private hospital rooms, etc. It doesn't cover the really expensive unpredictable things like major surgery, cancer treatment. The basics (eg GP visits) and the big expenses are covered by medicare.…

I also looked at insurance intended for non-Australians living in Australia (not covered at all by national insurance) and found prices to be pretty much the same

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#292

Post by WalterBright »

acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

Here's why it's broken. It's a long read, but worth it. The reasons are not what you'd expect, and not what you usually hear.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/how-amer...

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#293

Post by bzbarsky »

s3graham wrote: post #229
carlygeehr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge anyone with a painful but non-life-threatening injury - say, a torn labrum, or a torn ACL - to go live in Canada or the UK and see what their treatment is like compared to here. Anyone?

I have not torn an ACL in the US, but when I did in Canada, I found the treatment professional and quite reasonable in timeliness (Vancouver, BC). I saw 3 different doctors, including seeking multiple opinions from 2 different knee specialists. I decided not to have surgery right away, and got a brace. A few years later, my preferred leisure activities changed, so I decided to have surgery done. It took 11 weeks to g…

For your last question, it depends. Some plans are country-wide. Some are specific to a state except for emergency services.

There's the separate concept of in-network and out-of-network doctors, of course....

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#294

Post by rubeng »

wtracy wrote: post #73
krschultz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the difference between a family and a company, its the size of the group. Thus the costs for a company with 10,000 people is far different than a company with 10. Also, if you have a group of 2,5,10 or 20, the insurance company has an easier time denying you because if you get pissed and drop them, its not a big loss for them. In contrast, if you deny the right person at a 10,000 person company, they lose a…

Actually, has anyone tried banding a group of startups together until they have several thousand employees, then buy insurance as a bloc? Another idea I've kicked around: Create a sort-of incubator where, on paper, all of the startup founders and employees are employees of the incubator group. Then the incubator can handle the whole mess of both insurance and income taxes. (Bonus: Since the "incubator" now has a ton…

I work for a PEO -- Professional Employer Organization -- and that's essentially what we do. Clients that come onboard with a co-employment contract for their employees. We pay their employees, our clients pay us and we become the employer (in most states though laws are always changing). This means we have 90k employees that help us negotiate some pretty good rates for Benefit plans. It's actually a pretty decent way for a smaller company to offer benefits to their employees that are competitive to larger companies.

We do try to take on companies of a minimum size (10+ employees) but sometimes end up taking on companies with 2 or 3 employees because the owner forecasts explosive growth -- which never happens. All that said, it's a freaking battle with the carriers every year to try to keep the increases at a lower rate. Also, we have "rate buckets" where we place clients according to risk and past medical history of its employees. It still tends to work out better than if they would attempt to get insurance on their own.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#295

Post by WalterBright »

acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

"For fun, let’s imagine confiscating all the profits of all the famously greedy health-insurance companies. That would pay for four days of health care for all Americans."

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/how-amer...

Insurance company profits are not the problem.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#296

Post by elai »

acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

Per capita spending on health care in more sane developed countries in the world is about $4000/yr. To get your so-so full service health care, the sane market price is about $333/month, and in most of those systems, medication isn't covered fully if you have an income. $50-$100 month just doesn't work other than emergency health care. Emergency plans at that price also have clauses like the first $2500 of an accident is deductible free.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#297

Post by prodigal_erik »

rubeng wrote: post #294
wtracy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, has anyone tried banding a group of startups together until they have several thousand employees, then buy insurance as a bloc? Another idea I've kicked around: Create a sort-of incubator where, on paper, all of the startup founders and employees are employees of the incubator group. Then the incubator can handle the whole mess of both insurance and income taxes. (Bonus: Since the "incubator" now has a ton…

I work for a PEO -- Professional Employer Organization -- and that's essentially what we do. Clients that come onboard with a co-employment contract for their employees. We pay their employees, our clients pay us and we become the employer (in most states though laws are always changing). This means we have 90k employees that help us negotiate some pretty good rates for Benefit plans. It's actually a pretty decent wa…

> place clients according to risk and past medical history of its employees

shudder This is the part where a small employer can basically be forced to find an excuse to dismiss anyone with a serious illness, who is then doubly screwed. A public option would have been so much more humane.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/7/751100/-How-I-lost-my...

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#298

Post by ajays »

klenwell wrote: post #255
ajays wrote: post #138

The irony is: the same Congresscritters who vote against universal health insurance get top-notch health insurance paid for by taxpayers: http://www.suite101.com/content/health-care-for-the-us-congr... After 5 years of service, they get lifetime health insurance, the same as all federal employees and retirees: http://www.opm.gov/insure/retirees/index.asp?MainQuestionId=...

A few tea partiers turned down the insurance this year on principle. One was interviewed on NPR, where he acknowledged that the insurance rates he found on the open marker were a bit of a shock: http://www.npr.org/2011/02/09/133629806/16-Freshmen-GOP-Decl... Still, he rationalizes away the benefits of the new Health Care law: "But I think that if we had true health care reform that I wouldn't be paying $1,300 a month…

IMHO, Obama and company got carried away. They saw this opportunity to enact something comparable to Social Security and Medicare, and wanted to go down in the history books as having achieved something similar. Unfortunately, like any big project in Washington, this one was laden with loopholes, sweeteners, etc. In other words, a total mess.

It would have been far better to pass a series of smaller laws. Start with: it's illegal to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. Then, create cross-state markets and let insurance companies compete across state boundaries. Then, let families buy into the Federal government's health insurance program (if our elected reps can do it, why can't we?). And so on.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#300

Post by yaix »

It is broken ...and expensive.

My health insurance (not from US) has worldwide 100% coverage, except for the US. To get a US coverage, I would have to double what I am paying now.

The US health system is twice as expensive as any other health system in the world.

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