Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance • Hacker News Board

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#101

Post by nerfhammer » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:12 AM UTC

Groxx wrote: post #70

billjings wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are way, way above the amount of money health care should cost. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-... So as a matter of priority versus other spending outlays, we're way out of line. Here's per capita GDP: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=per+capita+GDP Spitballing from these numbers, it looks like we spend about as much in absolute terms as Switzerland, with everyone else way, way fa…

Nope, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees it's broken. And just to re-clarify: I'm not claiming we're not paying too much. I agree with everything you've said. Just that $50-100/month is un-doably low regardless of brokenness. I'll be reading through the links, I can always use more detailed info for future debates. Thanks! edit for repliers: before stating that location X has 100 or less per month, how much do your taxe…

Check out how much private insurance costs in Australia:

http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/dynamic/healthfundlist.aspx

Most plans are around A$100/month or less

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#102

Post by marshray » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:12 AM UTC

leot wrote: post #81

marshray wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those "minor reforms" were 10,000 pages long and I doubt that anyone understands them except the lobbyists who wrote them.

If this were something the health insurance lobbyists wanted, why have the health insurance companies spent so much in the last election to try and overturn it?

Maybe they didn't like the outcome either.

But the bigger reason is probably that ultimately they know the key to maximizing their long-term profitability is to funnel as much money into Washington DC as they possibly can.

There will be more laws regulating healthcare in the future.

Baby boomers are going to be using a lot of healthcare in the coming decades and retired people vote. The debates will be no less political.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#103

Post by potatolicious » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:14 AM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #61

haploid wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can give you one perspective. Moral hazard and fairness. The vast majority of costs borne by and in the US healthcare system are the results of overeating, oversmoking, and underexercising. Period. Heart disease, many forms of cancer, diabetes, most forms of pancreatic, gallbladder, and adrenal conditions, are largely the result of personal choice . Setting aside for a moment the fact that congenital defects, hered…

The same lifestyle diseases are at the top of the list for every country that already has some form of universal health care.

I'll admit it - I'm a former fatty (BMI 34). In Canada the government paid to send me to a dietician, along with an 8-week course that now makes me more informed about nutrition and dietary choices than most of the population.

That played no small part in getting me back in shape.

A single-payer/public system has a strong incentive to preventatively fight lifestyle diseases in a way that bickering insurance companies simply do not.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#104

Post by ahpeeyem » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:14 AM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

I would have lost my sight and probably then died slowly and painfully from a tumour some time in my teens if not for Australia's national Medicare system that's been treating my condition since I was 12 years old.

Instead I've only had to pay a nominal fee every time I need medication. Surgery, over a dozen MRI scans and visits to specialists over the years plus other tests and whatever else have all been paid for at no cost to me.

It scares the crap out of me to think what would have happened to me if I was in the USA.

To be able to see specialists or have expensive tests at times when I've been lucky to have $5 to my name is something I feel enormous gratitude for. I can't imagine the hardship having to pay for all this out of pocket would cause.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#105

Post by zmmmmm » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:16 AM UTC

The cost of healthcare and college basically scared me away from migrating to the US. It's a definite trade off but here in Australia, having paid off my house, I can live almost free of overheads. It is incredibly liberating to get up in the morning and know I can go to work on my own business without worrying that some freak accident or illness will destroy me financially.

On the other hand, I do think that the lack of these other costs is one reason that we have some of the highest house prices in the world. When you take away these other costs people just devote their disposable income elsewhere. Even so, I think it's better used that way than paying executives in health insurance companies.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#106

Post by mrkurt » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:18 AM UTC

> The difference is significant: my recent M.R.I. cost $1,300 at the “retail” rate, while the rate negotiated by the insurance company was $700.

The shocking thing is, if you get an MRI at a cash only diagnostics facility it can cost as little as $300.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#107

Post by DanI-S » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:19 AM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

I moved to the US from the UK over a year ago and I can't find words to describe the feeling of not having the NHS to rely on. This whole new world of potential disaster has opened up. It's something you've never had to think about before that is now at the forefront of your consciousness.

You can be young, fit and healthy, but get hit by a car and your life is over. Once you're bankrupted by medical fees, you'll never have good credit again - and in the US, this is like the mark of the beast.

It's no wonder that American streets are filled by the homeless and disabled. This is a great country, with wonderful people, but in some ways it's medieval.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#108

Post by ck2 » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:19 AM UTC

I just wish her report include some mention of WHAT the new legislation will in reality do for her?

Because I suspect it will do little for serious health problems. IF they can pay for it, all it will do is prevent the insurance companies dropping her when she gets sick someday or stop paying out when they hit a limit like on cancer.

I say that's not a lot because they ARE allowed to raise the premiums so high that the patient has to drop the insurance on their own because there's no way to for it.

So the legislation is useless for the serious stuff.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#109

Post by shiny » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:19 AM UTC

tonfa wrote: post #25

nhangen wrote: post #15

I left the Army where I had free healthcare for me and my family - I got spoiled. I really can't afford it now that I'm out and not with a big company. I've thought of going into the Reserves just to have the option to buy it again. Healthcare really does suck.

If you are inclined to move somewhere else, there are lots of countries with affordable healthcare (most of Europe, and I guess Canada for example).

How easy are these countries to get into (and become a working member of their society)? I know Switzerland and New Zealand are particularly tough.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#110

Post by muhfuhkuh » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 12:19 AM UTC

Groxx wrote: post #22

acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…

Japan forces their doctors to charge only what's published in a book that the government issues and negotiates prices periodically. Simple price fixing in an otherwise private healthcare market. In return, Japanese doctors and hospitals (FYI, there are more private hospitals in Japan than the US) are allowed to set whatever prices for ancillary services (like private or semi-private rooms) that they want. BTW, the average stay overnight in a private room at a Japanese hospital is about $100. An MRI (which was 1400 negotiated down to 700 FTA) is $98, due largely to the fact that the Japanese have more MRIs and CT scanners per capita than the US. I mean, wasn't technology supposed to be our superiority play?

And, if you want to talk care and outcomes, let's pick the most grim of diagnostics: Cancer. Japan's 5-year survival rates are among the highest in the world, and the highest in particular cancers such as colon and rectal cancer. And, FYI, the US isn't #1 in survival rates for all cancers. It's spread evenly through the G8.

And, the most free of supposed free markets and tax-friendly wonderlands, Singapore, also puts price controls on procedures, with similarly successful outcomes. So it isn't a cultural or "economic" thing, it's a government thing. It always will be. An adult just needs to come in, put their foot down similar to what Tommy Douglas did in Canada, and declare either we all buy in to a government-run healthcare system, or we buy in to the government completely regulating the market much like it does the stock market or agricultural industry. States will have no say, no quarter, or feedback. They can choose to secede from the union to opt-out of the program.

And, while I love me some comment karma, I know that my position is tantamount to heresy on this board, so, get your dismissive hand cocked and ready to wave me away :D