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Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

cloud.google.com

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Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#531

Post by adityapatadia »

A long time Google cloud customer who migrated away to DO recently. Here are the things Google gets completely wrong

- They are way behind compared to AWS in terms of stability and features, even then they always demand similar premium (ref. recent incedent: https://www.cbronline.com/news/google-cloud-down)

- Tax issues in foreign countries are never resolved. Due to Indian laws, we must pay TDS on our business payment and google has to refund them to us. It takes almost a year to get those refunds from Google. Not startup friendly.

- No support!! If anything goes wrong, AWS or DO solved issues even technical ones at times even when you have no support plan purchased. Google literally is useless when it comes to support. They carry that attitude from their search business.

- I see someone mentioned egress charges. In reality, cloud providers get super cheap bandwidth and they charge 9-10 cents for egress which is outrageous. It's not only Google but AWS as well but Google being new in market could have done better job here.

- DO Kubernetes is free and as someone mentioned, control plane downtime does not matter until workloads are not affected.

- In a nutshell, if I need stability, I will go to AWS, if I need better price, DO is not a bad choice. I am not sure where is Google positioned.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#532

Post by ralphie02 »

outworlder wrote: post #202
sl1ck731 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally and in my opinion, Azure is more complete than GCP. Between stuff like this and their product dropping stigma, most of my customers (in the cloud consulting space) are trying to get into Azure. This is across every industry we work in (retail especially). I've come across 2 customers in 3 years of consulting that want anything to do with GCP.

> Azure is more complete than GCP It has more features, yes. How well those features work is another matter entirely.

Can you give more details on this? Anecdotal is fine

I loosely follow AWS, GCP and Azure but I always get mixed opinions on them, especially the last two

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#533

Post by pojzon »

freedomben wrote: post #170
takeda wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen looks like managing k8s on your own often ends up requiring a dedicated team to keep with their insane release cycle.

Can confirm. Depending on your cluster size you will need at least 2 dedicated people on the "Kubernetes" team. You'll probably also end up rolling-your-own deployment tools because K8s API is a little overwhelming for most devs.

To be honest we are heavly using EKS and AKS in other teams and each of those teams has a dedicated devops subteam to help them not only with k8s but also other infrastructure because bare k8s is pretty useless for business.

So either way you end up in a situation where you require dedicated devops team pr dedicated teammembers to keep up with changing requirements.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#534

Post by bartread »

marcinzm wrote: post #473
bartread wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, the pricing changes are starting to look like a pattern, every time Google deems the usage of a product is good enough, they will increase the price. To be fair this is hardly new and by no means limited to Google. Any number of SaaS startups that have survived to at least moderate success have done similar things. Look at UserVoice as an example: started out with a free tier plus some reasonable paid tier…

>Any number of SaaS startups that have survived to at least moderate success have done similar things. Google is not a startup, it is one of the largest companies on the planet.

I don't see how that's relevant: my point is that it's a tactic employed by a wide range of businesses including but not limited to startups and we shouldn't be surprised to see it here. It's not a pattern that has suddenly emerged.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#535

Post by a_imho »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #175
rolleiflex wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seth — I appreciate you being here to take feedback, and for the clarification as well. The very surprising email I’ve received this morning is very hazy on the details, and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. The main issue is that not charging for the control plane and charging for the control plane leads to two very different Kubernetes architectures, and as per your docs, those decisions made at t…

I agree the rollout is a little bumpy but I'm curious what workloads you are using k8s for where a $74/mo (or $300/mo) bill isn't a rounding error in your capex?

How is it not a rounding error for Google?

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#536

Post by pojzon »

nfg wrote: post #324
pojzon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure AKS is pretty terrible TBH in comparison to GKE. Also lack of SLA / shady SLA does not help. Ps. Talking as someone with hands on experience. Ps2. Azure support is terrible and their response times are constantly breaking SLA..

I’m keen to hear what problems you’ve had with AKS if you’ve got time to share them here.

For example - metrics-server provided by AKS from the go is running in highly insecure manner. If you want to change that -> you cannot because they have automatic tools to keep bugging you out.

Another - constant disconnections of PV..

Another - 1/3 times the new provisioned node in vmss has a broken kubelet and doesn’t successfully register in control-plane. I was literally shocked when it happened twice in a single day. Response from support was that we are supposed to monitor that ourselves and drain unsuccessfully provisioned node - (we already were and it was mentioned in opening ticket) makes scaling horizontally REALLY PAINFUL..

CNI default reservation of IPs (30) - cannot be less - so if you have a service node running and you want only few pods to run on it for HA - well sucks to be you.

Kubenet not working until up recently with anything - for example AG, tho AG is a disaster of a service by itself.

Various API failures related to networking - sometimes control-plane lost connection to AKS subnet for some time (fixed by itself by still...)

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#537

Post by diegoperini »

ygggvg wrote: post #85
rolleiflex wrote: post #58

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

It's 72$ not 300 and the first is free. I'm not sure what your usecase is that you would choose gke and you are worried about 300$ per month infra costs. For Corp we use gke. For private I use selfhostet k3samd for our startup asuper cheap digital ocean cluster.

$300 is more than minimum wage in some countries.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#538

Post by merb »

freedomben wrote: post #459
JeremyNT wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you move from vendor lock in with the cloud provider, to vendor lock in with an expensive, proprietary* IBM k8s distribution with its strange nonstandard opinions about workflows that you have to manage yourself? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate RHAT's code contributions very much, they have done a lot for k8s! But running OKD on one's own is a bad idea, while paying for IBM support makes you as much a hostage as…

Thanks for the edits (and acknowledging our contributions). I wasn't sure if you were just trolling or not before, so I didn't want to engage. Your concern is valid, and I agree with you that OKD is not supported enough. I have my own theories as to why, but I will keep my criticism "in the family" (but do know there are people that want to see OKD be a first-class citizen, and know we are falling short right now). W…

btw. I would never run OpenShift after the CoreOS debacle. This was a really sketchy move and still is.

Yes RH did a lot for k8s, but killing of a working distribution without a direct migration path that is like "start again". will make your customers angry.

also I think the OpenShift terminology is way too much and OpenShift should be a way more thinner layer on top of k8s.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#539

Post by pojzon »

GordonS wrote: post #122
pojzon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure AKS is pretty terrible TBH in comparison to GKE. Also lack of SLA / shady SLA does not help. Ps. Talking as someone with hands on experience. Ps2. Azure support is terrible and their response times are constantly breaking SLA..

Counterpoint to your PS2 - I've used Azure support at both my enterprise job and my microISV - each time the responses have been quite quick, and each time they have been helpful. Honestly, I've been pleasantly surprised.

First response is often generated by automat. A generic one “hello this is X ill take care of your case” and the next real person response can happen the very next day when the ticket urgency is CRITICAL. Thats hilarious.

The best support I got a mispleasure to work with didn’t even know how the service Im having an issue is even working... And it was a “technical” ticket.

Seems like after the last round of pouching of best support engineers by AWS, Azure is left with only outsourced mob.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#540

Post by Glyptodon »

ones_and_zeros wrote: post #175
rolleiflex wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seth — I appreciate you being here to take feedback, and for the clarification as well. The very surprising email I’ve received this morning is very hazy on the details, and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. The main issue is that not charging for the control plane and charging for the control plane leads to two very different Kubernetes architectures, and as per your docs, those decisions made at t…

I agree the rollout is a little bumpy but I'm curious what workloads you are using k8s for where a $74/mo (or $300/mo) bill isn't a rounding error in your capex?

My boss viewed it as the main way to deploy containerized systems offered by cloud providers and figured we could run most of our internal only things in it for a couple hundred a month - we don't really need the guarantees and scale, and he saw it as a way to avoid creating excess numbers of dedicated VMs, as cloud run isn't sufficient for our non-static stuff. This view up until now has actually been quite accurate because of the dedicated usage discounts.

So I guess the big question in my mind is how do you run containerized apps in the major clouds besides K8s if it's a bulldozer and you just need a cargo bike? Is there something simpler?

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