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Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

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Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#121

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

My approach with any Google b2b product - always have a plan to migrate out of Google and never agree to anything that locks you to Google.

After seeing what they did to Google Maps and Api.AI / Dialogueflow jumped from free to 5k$ overnight - just can't trust them.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#122
post #112
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GCP is actually more the 3rd inferior option, behind Azure. Gartner lists Azure as just behind AWS for IaaS providers, and GCP a more distant 3rd: https://pages.awscloud.com/Gartner-Magic-Quadrant-for-Infras...

Azure AKS is pretty terrible TBH in comparison to GKE. Also lack of SLA / shady SLA does not help. Ps. Talking as someone with hands on experience. Ps2. Azure support is terrible and their response times are constantly breaking SLA..

Counterpoint to your PS2 - I've used Azure support at both my enterprise job and my microISV - each time the responses have been quite quick, and each time they have been helpful.

Honestly, I've been pleasantly surprised.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#123

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

Interesting. As a mid level GCP customer, it won't make a big dent on our bill specifically, but in the end, I'm not sure this pricing move is a smart strategy.

With this fixed fee model, the change will barely make a difference (== Google revenue) for the large customers who can spare the money, but will create a significant entry barrier to that side project / super-early stage that considers getting hooked on GCP, specifically GKE.

Then again, not my decision to make.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#124

We moved our cluster into the Hetzner Cloud for Emvi [1]. Yes, they don't offer a managed solution and it took us about two weeks to set up and test the cluster properly. But the cost is less than 1/6 of what gcloud costs us. If you have the resources and knowledge to maintain your own cluster, check it out. They have insanely good pricing (2,96 €/month for the cheapest instance which is faster than Googles $15/month…

Hetzner is solid from a perf / price perspective. Mind that the network peering outside Europe is not that great. So could be a very good choice depending on your user base' location.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DO is famous for being a pain in the ass. They’re great for tiny hobby things but honestly I’d never run a prod/serious/client workload there. Too many issues. I’ve had multiple clients lose a droplet due to a simple credit card expiration. It’s a race to the bottom on price so this doesn’t surprise me. They chose this life.

To be fair, what is the best way to handle expiring credit cards? For one of my SaaS products, I give a 30 day grace period, then delete the data. If they didn't have a backup, that's on them... If they delete the droplet the second a single CC payment fails, that's one thing, but I don't believe that's how their system works.

If you are literally in the business of enabling, storing, and protecting production workloads, data, etc.. then catastrophic data loss should be an asbolute last resort.

In both of these instances I am referring to a balance of less than $20.

So for less than $20 (a few weeks late) DO says, welp fuck this customer we are going to terminate all of their resources immediately.

This is what DO and others need to do: Put it in your terms that you will keep racking up charges and then send it to collections. Charge interest, charge fees, do whatever you want. Turn $20 into $40. Why? Because businesses do not give a shit... if it is between losing everything or a slap on the wrist (monetary fee) they will chose the latter every time.

One of my clients had to painstakingly trudge through archive.net to recreate their missing blog posts. How fucking miserable is that? Over a few hundred megabytes of disk that DO could have kept around...

Also, actally make an effort to reach out before doing anything serious. Call phone numbers, email other members on the team to alert them to the issue, etc...

Too many times I have seen some script kiddie throw together a client's WP site and toss it on DO because it is 'so cheap and cool' and yet they forget about everything else: backups, security, managing the box, etc... and inevitably shit will hit the fan.

I was really rootin' for DO in the beginning. I even applied to work there when they were first starting out but did not want to relo to NY. Now I am moving three clients OFF of DO because they are all very unhappy with the level (or lack) of service they've received.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#126

Hey everyone - Seth from Google here. Please let us know if you have any questions! You can learn more about the pricing changes at https://cloud.google.com/kubernetes-engine/pricing .

Very disappointed. Not by the price increase per se... but by the lack of a reasonable 'always free tier'. I think you should strongly consider tweaking the pricing to provide one or two or three multi-zone clusters for free instead of one single-zone cluster. Let us see the power of GKE without the extra charge and grow on your platform. This would allow new companies to choose gcp over aws/azure and start out with a proper highly available cluster or two/three in different regions and grow to more clusters over time. With the new pricing you're forcing them to choose between a single zone cluster or $70 per month per cluster (or another cloud). Please consider tweaking the new pricing to enable a lower price ramp up for newer companies... why not offer three multi-zone same-region cluster for free and then charge more established enterprises using more than 3 clusters? I appreciate the money is in the big customers... but why scare away the small customers who want 1-3 highly available clusters behind a gclb to provide higher availability and lower global latency. The mindshare of developers will move away from gke if you're not careful... both to aws/azure and others like DO kubernetes.

I believe the community is keen to engage with you on this based on the comments in this thread. If your team would like to talk to a disappointment (very small but hoping to grow) customer I'd be happy to jump on a call. I hope others here would be happy to do the same.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#127
post #107
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people drank the cloud kool-aid. The move from day one was to create provider agnostic cloud architectures and repent the use of provider-specific services. That said they do make it damn hard. Our k8s cluster is as basic as it comes, no databases, simple deployments, but we do still have a dependency on Google Cloud Loadbalancer (which we hate). If pricing goes up too much from this we'll move, but the GCL…

How about managing own k8s running on VMs / bare-metal? Pretty much anyone who works in ops longer understood from the go that its impossible to be totally provider-agnostic. K8S is just a nice api on top of provider api that still requires provider specific configuration.

The big problem with running your own cluster is the extra machines you need for a high-availability control plane, which is expensive. That is why Amazon and now Google feel like they can charge for this; you can't really do it any better yourself.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#128

I don't offhand remember AWS increasing prices for a service before but I might be wrong. How often does Google increase prices? For a business I prefer a company that starts with higher prices and then only lowers them to one that may increase them at any time.

Google Maps, GCE, this the second time I see Google increase price on highly important parts of business. On the third case it will be a trend.

Makes me rethink whether I want to do any business with Google anymore.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the feedback. The management fee is per cluster. You are not billed for replicated control planes. You can use the pricing calculator at https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator#tab=container to model pricing, but it should work out to $73/mo regardless of nodes or cluster size (again, because it's charged per-cluster). There's also one completely free zonal cluster for hobbyist projects.

Seth — I appreciate you being here to take feedback, and for the clarification as well. The very surprising email I’ve received this morning is very hazy on the details, and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. The main issue is that not charging for the control plane and charging for the control plane leads to two very different Kubernetes architectures, and as per your docs, those decisions made at t…

Thank you These changes won't take effect until June - customers won't start getting billed immediately. I'm sorry that you feel trapped, that's not our intention.

> You should keep existing clusters in the pricing model they’ve been built in, and apply this change for clusters created after today.

This is great feedback, but clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets. I'd love to learn more about why your clusters must be so static.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#130
"Let's trade goodwill for short term profits." I suppose not really surprising given the maps fiasco and Oracle appointment but this really comes off poorly to me.

Flat fee is gonna suck for people running a lot of clusters. I bet there are some people out there spinning up a cluster per x who are going to be real unhappy about this.

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