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Waymo Via

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Re: Waymo Via

#131

Post by TeMPOraL »

jpadkins wrote: post #97
BigBubbleButt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying robbing trucks is easy. I'm saying if I were to choose between robbing a manned truck vs an unmanned truck, I would definitely rob the unmanned truck.

why? the driver of the manned truck is going to comply just as willingly. No way they are going to put their life on the line (unless they own the cargo). The unmanned truck will cameras and video uploaded, which is stronger evidence than eye witness testimony. Also police response will be faster on unmanned (they can't call the police during the hold up, you can take the persons cell phone). No way you can stop the…

> No way you can stop the distress call from unmanned unless you had an EMP or something.

Wouldn't be so certain. Jammers are illegal, but they aren't that hard to make.

Re: Waymo Via

#132

Post by Pfhreak »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #119
Pfhreak wrote: post #89

If Waymo is successful, there are potentially massive impacts to the population of the US. Trucking is a major industry. The Luddites weren't mad about the advancement of technology, they didn't destroy looms out of religious or anti-technological ideals. Many of them were skilled loom operators. They were squeezed out of their jobs by the race to the bottom, and they were angry that there wasn't any consideration fo…

Why is it Waymo's job to take care of displaced drivers? Microsoft didn't have to take care of displaced secretaries. If it becomes a problem, this sounds like something for the government.

I hope the government does, but I also think it's in Waymo's best interest. We're not talking about a closet industry here, trucking employees ~8 million Americans, and probably supports many, many more than that.

You've seen the fuss over coal miners in the States as of late? There are ~50,000 coal miners. At its peak, coal mining was less than a million miners. The potential civil unrest from disrupting trucking could be a big deal. From insolvency of truckers who bought their own (now obsolete) equipment to demagoguery of politicians trying to soothe an angry group of people.

Re: Waymo Via

#133

Post by jartelt »

trenning wrote: post #12

Does Phoenix have laws that make them more attractive for testing or just location preference?

Combination of favorable laws, good weather for testing, wide roads, etc.

Re: Waymo Via

#134

Post by Pfhreak »

bdcs wrote: post #122
Pfhreak wrote: post #89

If Waymo is successful, there are potentially massive impacts to the population of the US. Trucking is a major industry. The Luddites weren't mad about the advancement of technology, they didn't destroy looms out of religious or anti-technological ideals. Many of them were skilled loom operators. They were squeezed out of their jobs by the race to the bottom, and they were angry that there wasn't any consideration fo…

>If Waymo is successful, there are potentially massive impacts to the population of the US. Trucking is a major industry. Certainly, but we don't know if it will be positive or negative. Some studies[0] show increases in human truck driver employment with long-haul being fully automated (plus the work seems nicer). [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/02/uber-...

The source for that article has been deleted. Additionally, the study was performed by Uber, who has an incentive to suggest that automating vehicles is a good thing.

If you have other sources, I'd be happy to take a look.

Re: Waymo Via

#135

Post by kuprel »

ckmiller wrote: post #41

I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the…

You could have one human teleoperator monitoring 10 trucks for corner cases like that. In your example the human could take over and drive over the bed sheet

Re: Waymo Via

#136

Post by shadowgovt »

gvb wrote: post #103
gretch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do this to humans pretty much just as easily, I just need some orange cones Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers. The reason people don't rob 18 wheelers or trains is because it's not a good criminal enterprise

Hijacking trucks (stealing trailers) is happening already with drivers and security guards. Remove the drivers and security guards and it will make it a lot easier. "The Curious Case of the Disappearing Nuts" https://www.outsideonline.com/2186526/nut-job "$370,000 worth of iPhone X devices were stolen from a UPS truck" https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/3/16601970/iphone-x-devices... "As Freight on Trucks Becomes More…

Honestly though, that's win-win.

A heist where a human is involved has enhanced risk of injury or loss-of-life if the driver / guard decides to be a big hero or the criminal gets jumpy.

A world where vehicles are modestly easier to steal from (but audit the thefts) pushes risk from human lives towards insurance companies. Toss in a few honeypot shipments that are tailed by a handful of squad cars, and things are probably fine.

We don't have rampant highwayman theft because there are human drivers. We don't have it because most people don't want to do it.

Re: Waymo Via

#137

Post by tashoecraft »

gvb wrote: post #103
gretch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do this to humans pretty much just as easily, I just need some orange cones Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers. The reason people don't rob 18 wheelers or trains is because it's not a good criminal enterprise

Hijacking trucks (stealing trailers) is happening already with drivers and security guards. Remove the drivers and security guards and it will make it a lot easier. "The Curious Case of the Disappearing Nuts" https://www.outsideonline.com/2186526/nut-job "$370,000 worth of iPhone X devices were stolen from a UPS truck" https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/3/16601970/iphone-x-devices... "As Freight on Trucks Becomes More…

Feel like we already have ways to reduce this, having a lone trucker doesn’t magically make it all safer, if anything it should make it much riskier as there is a human life on the line.

If robberies start happening, insurance will adjust. Maybe a security driver will tail multiple vehicles headed to the same destination. Worrying about these cases seems helpful, but the industry will resolve these as the savings and improvements seem to make it a simple equation. This is all assuming the tech works ofcourse

Re: Waymo Via

#138

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

Pfhreak wrote: post #132
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it Waymo's job to take care of displaced drivers? Microsoft didn't have to take care of displaced secretaries. If it becomes a problem, this sounds like something for the government.

I hope the government does, but I also think it's in Waymo's best interest. We're not talking about a closet industry here, trucking employees ~8 million Americans, and probably supports many, many more than that. You've seen the fuss over coal miners in the States as of late? There are ~50,000 coal miners. At its peak, coal mining was less than a million miners. The potential civil unrest from disrupting trucking co…

I doubt it'll be a like a light switch where one day there were no Waymo trucks, and the next day there are no conventional trucks.

It will likely be much closer to how Uber disrupted the Taxi Medallion market. You don't hear many people saying, "But think of the poor Taxi Medallion owners." But -- actually -- that was worse. It's literally a piece of paper.

If you buy a truck today, and self-driving trucks are a thing tomorrow -- you still have truck that's likely still holds most of its value.

Re: Waymo Via

#139

Post by brian_herman__ »

ckmiller wrote: post #41

I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the…

Yeah, the cops put a sign near my work on the highway saying about cargo robberies.

Re: Waymo Via

#140

Post by Traster »

Pfhreak wrote: post #89

If Waymo is successful, there are potentially massive impacts to the population of the US. Trucking is a major industry. The Luddites weren't mad about the advancement of technology, they didn't destroy looms out of religious or anti-technological ideals. Many of them were skilled loom operators. They were squeezed out of their jobs by the race to the bottom, and they were angry that there wasn't any consideration fo…

This is the problem of modern democracies in a nutshell. We saw the same thing with free trade. International free trade and movement of capital is claimed to increase the overall wealth of a nation whilst massively negatively impacting a small portion of the population (outsourcing clothing manufacturing gives everyone cheaper clothes but makes clothing factory workers in 1st world countries redundant). The huge corporations that profit the most from these new economies of scale and international competition then lobby to reduce social safety nets and standards so the exact people who were negatively impacted by these changes receive no help to get themselves back on their feet.

If it really is true that these changes massively increase the general wealth then it would seem trivial for governments to step in, take a small cut and put it towards retraining, re-employing and retiring these workers. Yet it very rarely happens.

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