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Waymo Via

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Re: Waymo Via

#81
post #45

I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the…

You can already do this to humans pretty much just as easily, I just need some orange cones Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers. The reason people don't rob 18 wheelers or trains is because it's not a good criminal enterprise

People rob 18 wheelers all the time - there are particularly valuable loads from particularly interesting places.

Source: my father had to prevent this for film/cassette/DVD distribution, especially prerelease goods.

Re: Waymo Via

#82

As a bike/ped advocate, I believe self-driving cars will ultimately be safer than humans. Yesterday I was nearly hit crossing street twice: once by an inattentive driver and once by an intentionally reckless speeder. Oh the other hand, my brother has done a fair amount of truck driving and I'm aware it's a common job in the US. Maybe now that Bloomberg has dropped out he get together with Yang and use his billions to…

> use his billions to start providing a basic income to displaced truck drivers?

Are there no other viable options to "truck drivers being replaced by automation" than basic income? I've read a lot of pushback about basic income online.

Re: Waymo Via

#83

Does a self-driving truck need a sleeper cab? Is the sleeper compartment filled with equipment?

For long haul you'd still want someone riding in the cab who can do basic maint I think, plus off loading the truck a lot of the times is the duty of the driver. Some companies advertise 'never tarp again!' because tarping your load on flatbeds is the driver's responsibility. Also for in-transit maint airlines need repair, trailer power needs to be checked especially for reefers. I'm not sure about otr truckers but f…

There will be one "driver" as a tender for 10+ trucks in a convoy.

Re: Waymo Via

#84
post #49

Just from looking at it there seem to be obvious sensor dead zones, particularly behind it.

You kind of need a $15/hr armed security guard along for the ride too so that the "cartel" or equivalent doesn't steal your load.

Re: Waymo Via

#85

As a bike/ped advocate, I believe self-driving cars will ultimately be safer than humans. Yesterday I was nearly hit crossing street twice: once by an inattentive driver and once by an intentionally reckless speeder. Oh the other hand, my brother has done a fair amount of truck driving and I'm aware it's a common job in the US. Maybe now that Bloomberg has dropped out he get together with Yang and use his billions to…

Common is an understatement: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/02/05/382664837/map-...

It is the #1 job in 29 states as of 2014.

Re: Waymo Via

#86

I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the…

The truck will be collecting storing and probably uploading a huge amount of evidence from many kinds of sensors during such a heist, so good luck getting away with that. Would make for a good Ocean's movie.

Re: Waymo Via

#87
post #45

I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the…

You can already do this to humans pretty much just as easily, I just need some orange cones Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers. The reason people don't rob 18 wheelers or trains is because it's not a good criminal enterprise

> Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers.

Your comment made me laugh. Very true. Besides the fact that there is no black market for 20 palettes of dog chew and asian pears, the other problem is that unless you successfully steal a few highly valuable items, you would need one or multiple trucks to carry what you've stolen from that semi. You probably don't want to use the semi you just stopped, because it could have multiple GPS trackers onboard.

If you knew that you were stopping a truck full of laptops, then maybe it would be worth it somehow, but as you pointed out, laptops have serial numbers... And then what, you load a few hundred laptops into a van, but your van is now "burned". It's been photographed and you need to dump it somewhere, further complicating your operation.

Then, I don't know, it seems to me like people just love to come up with imaginary reasons why self-driving cars/trucks can't work. They seem to fail to realize that, well, we can come up with even better safety measures. You could make your automated truck very hard to open. It doesn't need to have a lock that can be opened by a human with a physical key. It can have an electronic lock inside the door, shielded behind a 5mm thick steel plate, that's completely invisible from the outside.

You could also install a remote-controlled drone on top of the truck (value If robberies of automated trucks became rampant, I'm pretty sure we could come up with many ways to mitigate the problem. I mean, heck, we could even install pepper sprayers around the truck. But the robbers can just wear full-face masks, you say. Sure they can, but those masks aren't foolproof, and it's an additional piece of logistics they need to deal with.

Re: Waymo Via

#88
post #45

I competed in the DARPA Urban Challenge, back in 2007. While we were watching the finalists trying to sort out the world's first fully-automated traffic jam, the conversation turned to how easy it is to manipulate these vehicles. Imagine a remote stretch of highway frequented by automated 18-wheelers. All that's required to bring the truck to a screeching halt is a bedsheet and some decent timing, at which point the…

You can already do this to humans pretty much just as easily, I just need some orange cones Then what? You have 20 palettes of dog chew toys or asian pears....? Some of the goods have serial/tracking numbers. The reason people don't rob 18 wheelers or trains is because it's not a good criminal enterprise

> people don't rob 18 wheelers

Haven't you seen the documentary, The Fast and the Furious (2001)?

Re: Waymo Via

#89
If Waymo is successful, there are potentially massive impacts to the population of the US. Trucking is a major industry.

The Luddites weren't mad about the advancement of technology, they didn't destroy looms out of religious or anti-technological ideals. Many of them were skilled loom operators. They were squeezed out of their jobs by the race to the bottom, and they were angry that there wasn't any consideration for the paradigm shift they were experiencing.

If Waymo turns trucking into an automated business (or even just reduces the number of humans needed to haul cargo), we could be in for a similar situation. I wonder what Waymo is doing to help support the existing drivers, regulating how we should care for the many millions of humans this could impact, etc.

I believe automated vehicles will someday be safer and more desirable, but we need to ensure that they aren't also the villains in the disenfranchisement of millions of people.

Re: Waymo Via

#90

As a bike/ped advocate, I believe self-driving cars will ultimately be safer than humans. Yesterday I was nearly hit crossing street twice: once by an inattentive driver and once by an intentionally reckless speeder. Oh the other hand, my brother has done a fair amount of truck driving and I'm aware it's a common job in the US. Maybe now that Bloomberg has dropped out he get together with Yang and use his billions to…

> use his billions to start providing a basic income to displaced truck drivers? Are there no other viable options to "truck drivers being replaced by automation" than basic income? I've read a lot of pushback about basic income online.

yes, UBI's first- and second-order effects are designed to corral the citizenry into more control and dependency on the elite, rather than the stated intent of providing security and freedom.

besides, it's just as straightforward to offer every citizen a part-time job with the government that's worth $1000/mo and avoid most of its unintended consequences.

i would have supported yang more had he not staked his whole campaign on UBI, as he'd otherwise made some sensible arguments.

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