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The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

51–60 of 298 posts

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#51
post #26

I see a lot of "may", "possible", "if", ... Is this how people typically write a paper to Medical Virology?

> Is this how people typically write a paper to Medical Virology?

I wont assume that (I am software engg.)

I see where you are coming from. Here is my perspective, think of this like a outage of your service. No one has exact answers so team starts to dive in and starts sharing what they find.

These findings mostly prune the "solution space" of the problem.

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, only a N95 or better mask would protect you from incoming, as opposed to outgoing, viruses, and these masks are both impractical for everyday wear and need to be conserved for public health users.

I think there's a legitimate question here. Intuitively, if a non-N95 mask only stops 25% or 50% of incoming viruses, that still seems helpful? It's worth noting that in countries where wearing masks is normalized, making sure the general public can get some is a top priority.

My layman's understanding is that any barrier will stop some percent of most things. In the case of small, airborne particles, this stopped percentage of already-dry, floating material is very small. That means inhaling through them is relatively ineffective at stopping you from inhaling the particles.

When you exhale it is more wet and the moisture causes the barrier to catch more of the airborne particles. The barrier also catches any more-solid material that would otherwise land elsewhere, providing a mechanism for the particle to spread.

This means the net gain for wearing them to keep from catching the disease is relatively small compared to the gain by wearing them to prevent the spread if you may have been exposed.

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#53
post #18

Not a biologist, but reading the paper, the chain of reasoning appears to be summarized in this section: > Taken together, the neuroinvasive propensity has been demonstrated as a common feature of CoVs. In light of the high similarity between SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2, it is quite likely that SARS-CoV-2 also possesses a similar potential. Based on an epidemiological survey on COVID-19, the median time from the first sym…

> So let me ask a dumb question for someone with actual biomedical knowledge. Are they saying that infection of the CNS is somehow easier through the nose, in which case high-quality face masks actually do matter?

The olfactory receptors (nerves that smell) are among the most exposed nerves of the body, and IIRC they are single cells stretching from the mucus membrane in your nose all the way to the brain. And because smell is such an evolutionary ancient function, the relevant brain region is really close to the centre of the brain (and brainstem).

So it's really just two hops from the outside world to the command post of your autonomous nervous system (i. e. breathing)

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#55
post #26

I see a lot of "may", "possible", "if", ... Is this how people typically write a paper to Medical Virology?

Recently I started listening twiv.tv podcast and that's how they talk. For instance, they said there are many videos in social media of people dropping unconscious to the floor, but the virologists said not to trust those videos because "it's social media". I stopped listening to their podcast. These people don't reason unless they are shown a peer reviewed paper saying people drop unconscious. I mean, how likely is it that those videos are being faked?

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#56
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, only a N95 or better mask would protect you from incoming, as opposed to outgoing, viruses, and these masks are both impractical for everyday wear and need to be conserved for public health users.

I'm not sure I would call them impractical for everyday wear. I wear N95 masks when commuting during active wildfires. The news always says not to wear them because you won't put them on properly, but it's really not that hard to ensure the fitment is correct. It's not like the construction workers that wear them occupationally are rocket scientists. My partner is more vulnerable to respiratory problems and has alway…

Mask fit testing isn’t really about whether you feel like it’s fitting or not but if you have the money I don’t see a reason not to wear the N95

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#57
post #10

From the paper: > If the neuroinvasion of SARS-CoV-2 does take a part in the development of respiratory failure in COVID-19 patients, the precaution with masks will absolutely be the most effective measure to protect against the possible entry of the virus into the CNS. It may also be expected that the symptoms of the patients infected via facal-oral or conjunctival route will be lighter than those infected intranasa…

This is super scary. Before I read this I was happily thinking hey it's no worse than flu. Now... I'm wishing I didn't live in a huge city riding the subway daily.

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#58
post #18

Not a biologist, but reading the paper, the chain of reasoning appears to be summarized in this section: > Taken together, the neuroinvasive propensity has been demonstrated as a common feature of CoVs. In light of the high similarity between SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2, it is quite likely that SARS-CoV-2 also possesses a similar potential. Based on an epidemiological survey on COVID-19, the median time from the first sym…

You are now breathing manually ... forever.

... Thanks

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#59
post #10

From the paper: > If the neuroinvasion of SARS-CoV-2 does take a part in the development of respiratory failure in COVID-19 patients, the precaution with masks will absolutely be the most effective measure to protect against the possible entry of the virus into the CNS. It may also be expected that the symptoms of the patients infected via facal-oral or conjunctival route will be lighter than those infected intranasa…

Yes, only a N95 or better mask would protect you from incoming, as opposed to outgoing, viruses, and these masks are both impractical for everyday wear and need to be conserved for public health users.

I will argue this is wrong: Only N95 or better masks have studies proving their effectiveness. I don't think we have good data on weaker masks or even "home made" masks- It's totally possible they are also effective, with proper technique.

Please somebody show me data that proves otherwise, I'm totally open to it. (Note: I'm not saying I want you to post opinions from people in authority, I'm saying I want to see data)

Re: The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2

#60
post #57
post #10

From the paper: > If the neuroinvasion of SARS-CoV-2 does take a part in the development of respiratory failure in COVID-19 patients, the precaution with masks will absolutely be the most effective measure to protect against the possible entry of the virus into the CNS. It may also be expected that the symptoms of the patients infected via facal-oral or conjunctival route will be lighter than those infected intranasa…

This is super scary. Before I read this I was happily thinking hey it's no worse than flu. Now... I'm wishing I didn't live in a huge city riding the subway daily.

I keep trying to not look up Coronavirus news online, but I can't help it... and after reading this I'm genuinely terrified. The word "potential" on the title is entirely invisible to me.
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