Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance • Hacker News Board

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#181

Post by potatolicious » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:43 AM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #156

dgabriel wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of catastrophic insurance if they can drop you when you need it? It seems like you're paying for nothing.

It's a gamble. I imagine that the risk of being dropped is directly proportional to the amount of attention I garner. Break a leg? Probably not a big deal. Get cancer? Better look out.

> "Break a leg? Probably not a big deal. Get cancer? Better look out."

This is a horrifying, inhumane, uncivilized concept. Why the American public simply accepts this is mind-boggling.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#182

Post by nostrademons » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:44 AM UTC

wtracy wrote: post #73

krschultz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the difference between a family and a company, its the size of the group. Thus the costs for a company with 10,000 people is far different than a company with 10. Also, if you have a group of 2,5,10 or 20, the insurance company has an easier time denying you because if you get pissed and drop them, its not a big loss for them. In contrast, if you deny the right person at a 10,000 person company, they lose a…

Actually, has anyone tried banding a group of startups together until they have several thousand employees, then buy insurance as a bloc? Another idea I've kicked around: Create a sort-of incubator where, on paper, all of the startup founders and employees are employees of the incubator group. Then the incubator can handle the whole mess of both insurance and income taxes. (Bonus: Since the "incubator" now has a ton…

I'm kinda wondering if YCombinator or one of the other incubators could do something like that. For me, a major reason why I'm not doing a startup now is that I'm not sure I could get health insurance. My last startup was done in Massachusetts when I was 25, so it was no problem to get an individual high-deductible policy. I'm not sure I could do the same thing in California, now that I'm pushing 30.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#183

Post by krschultz » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:46 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #42

acabal wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my good friends is a mechanical engineer, young, single, and healthy, but with a thyroid problem. He requires pills every day for the rest of his life. He would not be able to afford those pills for long without insurance if he quit his cube job and tried to innovate in his field: high efficiency engines and biofuels. These aren't imaginary people.

I haven't had health insurance in over 10 years. I get sick, my family loses everything. During that time I've been self-employed and worked on several startups. You think telling me a story about your friend is somehow going to enlighten me on the subject of health insurance? How many anecdotes would we need to share to gain any ground in this discussion?

That sounds incredibly selfish.

This is what will actually happen if you get sick enough that your family loses everything: you will go to a hospital, you will get covered by the hospital because you can't be denied for lack of insurance coverage, and then the hospital will never recoup its expenses.

Of course this also means you will have bankrupted your family.

Why?

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#184

Post by 2arrs2ells » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:47 AM UTC

carlygeehr wrote: post #120

SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

I challenge anyone with a painful but non-life-threatening injury - say, a torn labrum, or a torn ACL - to go live in Canada or the UK and see what their treatment is like compared to here. Anyone?

Journalist TR Reid had doctors in a variety of countries (U.S., France, Germany, Japan, England and India) take a look at a shoulder injury he had and wrote about the results: http://www.amazon.com/Healing-America-Global-Better-Cheaper/...

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#185

Post by nostrademons » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:48 AM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #35

I'm no expert, but isn't this one of the major issues that the health care reform bill of 2010 is going to fix? Granted, it doesn't go into effect (for adults) until Jan 1, 2014, but I thought that insurance companies will be prohibited from denying coverage or charging higher rates based on pre-existing medical conditions. Am I mistaken? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordab...

If it's not repealed first. I believe that's what this article's addressing - she's trying to educate people enough that they will not support a repeal of Obamacare.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#186

Post by netcan » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:49 AM UTC

nerfhammer wrote: post #101

Groxx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees it's broken. And just to re-clarify: I'm not claiming we're not paying too much. I agree with everything you've said. Just that $50-100/month is un-doably low regardless of brokenness. I'll be reading through the links, I can always use more detailed info for future debates. Thanks! edit for repliers: before stating that location X has 100 or less per month, how much do your taxe…

Check out how much private insurance costs in Australia: http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/dynamic/healthfundlist.aspx Most plans are around A$100/month or less

Australian private health insurance isn't necessarily a good comparison for two reasons.

First, it's a complimentary insurance meaning that it's for extras that people otherwise pay out of pocket or go without like dental, private hospital rooms, etc. It doesn't cover the really expensive unpredictable things like major surgery, cancer treatment. The basics (eg GP visits) and the big expenses are covered by medicare.

Second, it is subsidized from both ends. The insurance companies get paid by the commonwealth and the expense is mostly tax deductible.

You really can't use the cost to us as a measure of what it costs to run.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#187

Post by dminor » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:51 AM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #84

I'm 35, single, and paying something like $120 per month for Blue Cross coverage that I found on ehealthinsurance. I've used them each time I've not been actively employed, and I've always found an acceptable deal. Mind you, I took the high deductible route since I'm only concerned with catastrophic illness at right now. Also, the moment anything serious comes up, they can cleverly drop me, since they have ludicrous…

> Also, the moment anything serious comes up, they can cleverly drop me

Actually they can't any more, as the "no rescission" part of the health care law came into effect in September of 2010: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/index.html

They now have to prove you intentionally misled them about your condition.

EDIT - More detailed link: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provisions/Curbing%20Insurance...

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#188

Post by krschultz » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:51 AM UTC

marshray wrote: post #92

gnaritas wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those "minor reforms" were 10,000 pages long So what? We live in a litigious society, laws are verbose because they have to be. Make it too vague and you just force the issues to be resolved in the courts making it even more confusing because the rules become written in case law.

The "what" is that our so-called "lawmakers" hadn't written it, much less read it, understood it, and debated it in any rational way before they voted on it. Call me an idealist, but I think that's bad. Like a tax code, usually these kinds of things end up working out mostly to the benefit of the larger parties who pay the most lawyers and professional staff to find and execute on the loopholes.

I don't know, it took about a year for them to pass it. I understand it fairly well because I've read a lot of perspectives on it from both sides. The "IT'S SO DAMN LONG NOBODY CAN UNDERSTAND IT AND THEY SHOVED IT DOWN OUR THROATS SO FAST" is just a tactic to try and sway people who haven't been following in detail to be against it. Anything trying to change this convoluted system is going to be complicated.

I do engineering for government contracts. The spec for the system I work on covers thousands of pages. I've read about 6" thick worth of it and that is less than 10%. But they detail down to the most minute thing what you are allowed to do and not allowed to do. The big picture stuff fits on the first 10 pages, and then they drill down into exactly what kind of thread you can have on a fastener and exactly how you are allowed to stress a weld for the next 1,000 pages. But it stems from previous experiences and errors, and it leads to a better product (though a more expensive one).

So I don't think "# of pages" should ever be a metric for judging a law.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#189

Post by Vivtek » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:54 AM UTC

billjings wrote: post #172

Groxx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of that is subsidized by your taxes? That counts towards the final cost. Spreading it out doesn't make it less real. edit: answered for you: > In 2009, the government funded about 70% of Canadians' health care costs. > Per capita expenditure in 2009: 3,895 $227 per month, per person, comes from the government, which gets its funding from your taxes. So you're paying $801/month for that plan (three people). S…

Two points - one, is that odds are he's not paying $807/mo out of his taxes due to a progressive income tax. He's probably paying a good portion out of his taxes, but not $807/mo. Point two - and this isn't a rebuttal of any kind against your claims, just an observation - that same graph shows that Canada spends a lower portion of government revenue on health care than we do. And we don't even have universal coverage…

The takeaway - you're actually paying for what should be your healthcare in your taxes as an American, but you're not actually getting the healthcare, because that would be socialism.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#190

Post by ylem » Tue, Feb 22, 2011, 1:56 AM UTC

I was in France not too long ago and had to go to the emergency room for stitches. The wait was not much longer than in the US--we started talking about payment (I didn't have my insurance card on me...doh!. Finally, I asked them what the bill was--around 20 Euro. I paid cash...I talked to a doctor on the bus ride back and part of it is a combination of low malpractice suits (I think a minor part) , taxes, and the fact that doctor salaries are much lower than they are here in the US...

I agree that the system is broke here.