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UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

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Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a golden parachute.

Golden parachutes are not decided on after the fact. They are agreed upon in advance when they are hired. The only reason companies offer them is to get the best people they can. The person running your investments can make or break you. You're going to hire the best you can, and that's going to cost. And someone with a track record of making it rain is going to know this and know what they're worth. If you want a go…

> The person running your investments can make or break you

How would one propose to distinguish* someone who will deliver growth for - say - 25 consecutive years from someone who delivers growth for 5 years yet blows up your endowment in year 6 ?

* beforehand ;)

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#412
post #118
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1920, less than 20% of Americans completed 4 years of high school. How do you think the average economic status of that group compared to the whole country? As old limits cease to be sufficiently exlusive, new ones are introduced.

If you didn't complete high school that means you joined the labor force instead. You are right that of those who went to college, it perhaps wasn't those with connections to the working class economy and readily available local blue collar job opportunities. That being said, if you didn't want to work with Dad on the factory line at 16, then you just hit the books, graduated, and were virtually guaranteed college ad…

I think a lot of the people choosing to forgo education for an immediate job probably also had some familiar financial pressures that made that choice more appealing. Children helping their parents with money isn't new; the expectation of 12+ years of schooling is new.

Choosing to continue formal education rather than generate income is a choice that is a lot easier for those who are better off. It's surprising to me that, even as vaguely leftist sentiments run through it, your argument hinges on a myth of egalitarian education while denying any possible effect of wealth inequality.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golden parachutes are not decided on after the fact. They are agreed upon in advance when they are hired. The only reason companies offer them is to get the best people they can. The person running your investments can make or break you. You're going to hire the best you can, and that's going to cost. And someone with a track record of making it rain is going to know this and know what they're worth. If you want a go…

> The person running your investments can make or break you How would one propose to distinguish* someone who will deliver growth for - say - 25 consecutive years from someone who delivers growth for 5 years yet blows up your endowment in year 6 ? * beforehand ;)

Their track record.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#414
post #273

I'm an undergrad at UCSC right now and have found the entire strike to be more detrimental to their cause. They've lost so much undergrad support after disrupting a STEM midterm and shutting down campus causing us to miss the classes we have paid for. I even lost my grades last quarter as my TA was fired ( of the 54 ) and he has refused to hand them over post firing. What it has done to the undergraduates is a little…

There seems to be a history of strikes at UCSC alienating the rank and file. Strikes are supposed to squeeze the employer, e.g. because their factory isn't producing and the employer is losing face & sales to competitors. All the strikes at UCSC seem to wind up squeezing the student body, which 1) doesn't call the shots and 2) is paying fixed costs. Last one I remember was a transit strike where the strikers closed a…

So the only workers at a university who have any capacity to effectively strike are the employees in the admissions department?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#415
post #108

There are about 1800 UCSC graduate students [1]. From this 2014-15 UCSC budget report [2] there is a very near 2:1 masters:phd graduation ratio. Assuming there are 2 years of masters students and 6 of PhD at any one time, that makes PhD students 60% of “graduate students”. Let’s make this easy by saying 1000 PhD students (if anything I imagine it’s way less than this — as I understand, monetizing masters students has…

Your second reference also points out UCSC's operating budget for 2016 is $722 million. Revenue and expenditures have likely increased 4 years later, but the $13 mil represents a 1.8% increase in operational cost. The UCSC administration would have to cut other programs' budgets in order to make the difference.

I'm an UCSC alumnus, and I served as a student rep on UCSC's Academic Senate's Committee on Planning and Budget (CPB). I've sided with the graduate students in this case. If you follow the subreddit r/UCSC, you will see the student body is largely divided on the issue. Now, subreddit posts are a small sample of the student body, it does affect the perception as well as the notoriety of UCSC being a liberal school full of hippies that always fight for worker's rights. It is harder to rebuild that kind of reputation in the school's brand. And it also negatively affects alumni fundraising.

It puts the UCSC administration between a rock and a hard place. I've worked with the administration in the past. They are intelligent and caring faculty members trying to walk a tight rope every year with UCOP/Regents increasingly demanding in delivering in business objectives (increase enrollment/revenue) on one side and their academic mission on the other. I do not envy them.

UCOP miscalculated this entire affair. UCSC grads going on strike has also encouraged UC Berkeley's and Davis's grads to strike in solidarity. The administration has never been able to handle student protests with the best optics, and unfortunately, student protests historically do not succeed in getting their demands met. It is.. a teachable moment, well steeped in irony.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#416
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compulsory union membership has been illegal since the 1947 Taft-Hartey Act. Compulsory legal representation fees for public sector unions have been illegal since Janus v. AFSCME (2018). Just like in a democracy, not everybody's interests can be fully satisfied in a union. So what? That doesn't necessarily mean we'd all be better off with autocracy or without any government whatsoever, not even the people getting the…

Unions still have many monopolistic legal rights. For example, one obvious question is why UCSC students can’t form their own union and get their own contract; the answer is that it would be illegal, because if there’s a duly authorized union employers can’t collectively bargain with any other group.

Why couldn't people call a new vote for the new union?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions still have many monopolistic legal rights. For example, one obvious question is why UCSC students can’t form their own union and get their own contract; the answer is that it would be illegal, because if there’s a duly authorized union employers can’t collectively bargain with any other group.

Why couldn't people call a new vote for the new union?

That would also be illegal right now, since it hasn't been 3 years since the union contract was signed.

ref: https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/whats-law/employees/i...

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#418
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a history of strikes at UCSC alienating the rank and file. Strikes are supposed to squeeze the employer, e.g. because their factory isn't producing and the employer is losing face & sales to competitors. All the strikes at UCSC seem to wind up squeezing the student body, which 1) doesn't call the shots and 2) is paying fixed costs. Last one I remember was a transit strike where the strikers closed a…

So the only workers at a university who have any capacity to effectively strike are the employees in the admissions department?

And now you've just figured out why in labor disputes it's so important/valuable for everyone to be in the union.

(Also, don't forget about the employees in billing, grant handling, the professors bringing in big grants, etc)

Back in the day of unions, strikes were not about making a statement, they were literally bending the employer to the will of the workers with brute force. The workers- collectively- held the power. Unresolved strikes literally sunk companies. It feels like that's been forgotten somewhat.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#419
post #264
post #108

There are about 1800 UCSC graduate students [1]. From this 2014-15 UCSC budget report [2] there is a very near 2:1 masters:phd graduation ratio. Assuming there are 2 years of masters students and 6 of PhD at any one time, that makes PhD students 60% of “graduate students”. Let’s make this easy by saying 1000 PhD students (if anything I imagine it’s way less than this — as I understand, monetizing masters students has…

The whole grad school equation is foobar. Universities import foreign labor and they under pay given their monopoly where paid positions exist. They also rely on students obtaining external funding.

>Universities import foreign labor and they under pay given their monopoly

Given that there's hundreds of schools with thousands of grad programs to choose from, with none of them having more than a tiny percentage of the total market, this is not monopoly pricing.

It's simply supply and demand. People are willing to show up and work for the vast majority of these programs.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#420
post #64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way workers in this country are treated is god-awful, and I'm saddened by the people in this thread who are cheering the firing of these students. I'm not cheering their firing. I'm just explaining why their strike did not work out as they wished. > ask for compensation that reflects the value they bring to the organization That's not how it works in the real world. You get paid by market rate; which means if t…

> That's not how it works in the real world. You get paid by market rate; which means if there is someone else accepting a pay cut, you'll get fired and replaced. I agree, that's true. It's almost as if this is an unjust system that devolves into a race to the bottom and inevitable exploitation of workers. And that in the real world, anyone who tries to fight against this system ends up screwed by their employers. I'…

>this is an unjust system that devolves into a race to the bottom and inevitable exploitation of workers

Yet this system has increased the real pay of labor many, many fold over the past 100 years, to where even poverty level in the US is above a good portion of the world income, even though those other people also labor quite hard.

It's an odd race to the bottom that has raised wages so significantly for all quintiles.

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