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UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

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Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#41
post #7

Just 1.5 generations ago, University was for those who could afford it. Many grad student programs today are in that category. This category of people competing for jobs otherwise filled by individuals with wealth will always exist, there's no 'solution' to this problem. I think it's best to not take those jobs and to find a cost-efficient way to get through grad school. If people did this, the system would change. T…

1.5 generations ago the UC system was nearly free to attend.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#42
post #3
post #2

I lived on 54 cent pancakes covered in free butter and honey, 9 cents per can baked beans (turns out I don't like baked beans, I like good sauce which this was not), and candy bars out of a broken and never fixed candy machine. I don't recommend it. I weighed 110 pounds by the time I left. All of my money went to dorm housing (paid to the school). Later when I was a researcher I found out that the Provost takes 55% o…

Simpsons grad student sketch is different kind of funny for different people. For most people it's funny because it's exaggeration, for others it's funny because it's so close to reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqrCoyVK80I --- On more serious note, grad student working for next to nothing serves similar function as unpaid internships in companies and politics. Some positions are designed to help young people…

Except, in the case of big tech, Internships pay six figures.

There are other perks of being a grad student than just the pay though...

: sure, the internships aren’t typically a year long, but if you do the math for what’s paid for their duration it’s an incredible amount if it did last a year.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#43
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

Unfortunately a PhD is sold as a key step for a well-paying and fulfilling career where you can make a difference. As we live in a society where education is fundamental to success and having a good life, a PhD is considered as the last and most exclusive step in a promising career path. But then the disappointing part is that the system in place is designed to exploit newcomers and place them in an abuse relationshi…

There’s no shortage of folks being sold “key steps” to high paying jobs. Maybe their meter stick is different from yours, but taking that job as the night attendant at the hotel to move up the ranks or getting a salaried position as an assistant manager at Burger King as a path to a regional manager.

Lots of folks trying to sell you a path to success.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#44
post #7

Just 1.5 generations ago, University was for those who could afford it. Many grad student programs today are in that category. This category of people competing for jobs otherwise filled by individuals with wealth will always exist, there's no 'solution' to this problem. I think it's best to not take those jobs and to find a cost-efficient way to get through grad school. If people did this, the system would change. T…

1.5 generations ago the UC system was nearly free to attend.

1.5 generations ago in 1950, about %8 of people went to College. I don't think that 'free' in relative terms is quite accurate as it was clearly still out of reach of most people it'd seem.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have trust fund, career in politics, academia or high profile law and financial firms is much easier. I'm having trouble parsing that

Only kids from wealthy families can afford to move to say DC or NY and spend a year there on an unpaid internship. So that becomes a selection criteria to exclude those from poor and middle classes from advancing in those domains.

The same is true for entry-level media jobs. Paying $40-$50k in NYC... you can be sure kids without generational wealth & parents financial assistance choose other paths.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#46
UC president Janet Napolitano was caught on a hot mic a few years back saying, “We don’t have to listen to this crap”, when grad students protested for living wages.

Sounds like not much has changed. Of course, she lives for free in the UC presidential mansion, and had the school spend $620,000 to renovate it before she moved in, so she’s all set.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately a PhD is sold as a key step for a well-paying and fulfilling career where you can make a difference. As we live in a society where education is fundamental to success and having a good life, a PhD is considered as the last and most exclusive step in a promising career path. But then the disappointing part is that the system in place is designed to exploit newcomers and place them in an abuse relationshi…

But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to. I didn’t - I worked for a company instead. Maybe if the university had paid more I’d have worked for it instead.

> But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to.

Your comment is unrealistic and even absurd to the majority of those going through the PhD threadmill.

It's like saying you can dunk a basketball if you'd want to. Sure, show me LeBron James and how easy it is for him, but for those of us who aren't benefitting from abnormal competitive advantages then it's not that realistic.

How many people are lucky enough to be able to not only work a full-time job that pays the bills and is close enough to grad school and also be able to be in a field where literally part-time amateurs can do all the required academic work to write papers, a whole dissertation and defend a decent thesis? And in the end do well enough to aspire to have a career in your field of research?

You have a better chance of dunking on LeBron James.

"Let them eat cake."

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's going to entertain the researchers when they're not working? Or do you imagine they'll simply work every waking hour?

Amazingly, there’s other ways to entertain yourself than zoning out in front of a screen.

Who said anything about a screen? Plays, live music, comedy, need I go on?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#49
I think this is a wake-up call for these grad students of how the real world works.

> Instead of firing TAs who are standing up for a decent standard of living for themselves, UC must sit down at the bargaining table and negotiate a cost of living increase.

Sitting at the negotiations table where you hold none of the cards means you are not getting the pay increase you are asking for. Striking is for workers who know they hold some cards and the other party is not listening.

Striking without any card means you are going to get fired; which just happened here.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#50
post #8

Hopefully the strike will now spread to other UC campuses. The back story here is that United Auto Workers (the UC grad students’ union) negotiated an unacceptable contract, and despite many months of pushback from the students, and despite UCSC voting against it, the union ratified it anyway (including a no-strike clause). Also, the faculty of UCSC voted against the firings.

> United Auto Workers (the UC grad students’ union) Why are they represented by such a completely unrelated union?

When I was a UC grad student, it appeared to me that the UAW preyed on idealistic students that the UAW could take advantage of. I agitated for having them ejected but was told something along the lines of "we're not allowed to talk about that." I would have liked to continued questioning, but I lost the floor at that point.
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