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UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

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Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society needs researchers - it doesn’t need actors.

Who's going to entertain the researchers when they're not working? Or do you imagine they'll simply work every waking hour?

Amazingly, there’s other ways to entertain yourself than zoning out in front of a screen.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#32
post #2

I lived on 54 cent pancakes covered in free butter and honey, 9 cents per can baked beans (turns out I don't like baked beans, I like good sauce which this was not), and candy bars out of a broken and never fixed candy machine. I don't recommend it. I weighed 110 pounds by the time I left. All of my money went to dorm housing (paid to the school). Later when I was a researcher I found out that the Provost takes 55% o…

There must be some misunderstanding. The provost doesn't take the overhead, the university does, which is a common practice.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#33

I got filled with righteous internet rage when I read the headline, but then I read the article. The particular strike was implemented by withholding fall grades, which seems to unnecessarily burden students who are to be buried under crushing debt, no? Also, they are apparently unionized and this strike was against the extant agreements. The consequences of not getting a grade can affect a student’s entire career an…

So the correct title should be: California university fired 54 grad students who withheld students' final grades

Is firing sufficient for punishment?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#34
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society needs researchers - it doesn’t need actors.

Who's going to entertain the researchers when they're not working? Or do you imagine they'll simply work every waking hour?

Back in the day, people were actually entertaining themselves and their neighbors, via amateur community plays.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#35
post #9
post #2

I lived on 54 cent pancakes covered in free butter and honey, 9 cents per can baked beans (turns out I don't like baked beans, I like good sauce which this was not), and candy bars out of a broken and never fixed candy machine. I don't recommend it. I weighed 110 pounds by the time I left. All of my money went to dorm housing (paid to the school). Later when I was a researcher I found out that the Provost takes 55% o…

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

Unfortunately a PhD is sold as a key step for a well-paying and fulfilling career where you can make a difference. As we live in a society where education is fundamental to success and having a good life, a PhD is considered as the last and most exclusive step in a promising career path.

But then the disappointing part is that the system in place is designed to exploit newcomers and place them in an abuse relationship where they are forced to go through the ringer as indentured servants hoping that their ultimate goal is just around the corner.

You may quote simplistic cliches regarding economy and career choices, but the truth of the matter is that the grad school system is designed to be a monopoly where grad students have absolutely no power or influence over their career other than quitting, which ultimately results in total and definite exclusion from the industry, and thus are forced to endure years of indentured servitude. As a grad student you don't have the freedom to switch schools, negotiate your salary, or even be recognized as an employee.

This example demonstrates the absolute lack of power or influence that grad students have: if you disagree with your supervisor then say goodbye to your whole career.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society needs researchers - it doesn’t need actors.

I don’t want to live in whatever society you’re projecting here. I think that statement is incredibly narrow-minded. We need both .

> I don’t want to live in whatever society you’re projecting here.

I was describing society as it is now and explaining why researchers get more scholarships than actors do.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

Unfortunately a PhD is sold as a key step for a well-paying and fulfilling career where you can make a difference. As we live in a society where education is fundamental to success and having a good life, a PhD is considered as the last and most exclusive step in a promising career path. But then the disappointing part is that the system in place is designed to exploit newcomers and place them in an abuse relationshi…

But you don’t have to work for the university while you do your PhD if you don’t want to. I didn’t - I worked for a company instead. Maybe if the university had paid more I’d have worked for it instead.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#38

I got filled with righteous internet rage when I read the headline, but then I read the article. The particular strike was implemented by withholding fall grades, which seems to unnecessarily burden students who are to be buried under crushing debt, no? Also, they are apparently unionized and this strike was against the extant agreements. The consequences of not getting a grade can affect a student’s entire career an…

It's like protests is meant to cause a disruption.

I really have a terrible place in my heart for people who criticize protests because it caused a disruption.

That's the point of a protest.

I'm very happy for you that you've never felt the need to take these drastic steps, but they're protesting real issues and real problems they're having. The grades are ultimately the universities problem

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People literally die without research into things like drugs. They don’t die without movies.

there are a lot of anecdotes about how a song or a book or a movie changed someone's life.

> there are a lot of anecdotes.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#40
post #9
post #2

I lived on 54 cent pancakes covered in free butter and honey, 9 cents per can baked beans (turns out I don't like baked beans, I like good sauce which this was not), and candy bars out of a broken and never fixed candy machine. I don't recommend it. I weighed 110 pounds by the time I left. All of my money went to dorm housing (paid to the school). Later when I was a researcher I found out that the Provost takes 55% o…

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

In the Netherlands every PhD will be paid fairly decently. That's how it should be. Nor excuse for rich universities like those in UK & US to exploit those dreaming of s research career.
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