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Freeman Dyson Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#251

Post by didericis »

mannykannot wrote: post #176
didericis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s unfair to call Dyson a non-expert. Climate science was not his speciality, and he was humble about his relation to it and quick to point out that there are people more familiar with the current state of the field than him, but he was involved in important early climate studies. From Wikipedia: > Around 1979 Dyson worked with the Institute for Energy Analysis on climate studies. This group, under Alvin We…

Unfortunately, he acted like a non-expert when he hand-waved away quantitative arguments. Being wary of long-term predictions does not in any way justify using claims that are not even predictions, in any scientific sense, to argue for the opposite outcome.

I disagree about him hand-waving away quantitative arguments.

I’ve watched a number of relatively lengthy interviews and presentations he’s given that have been about or have touched on the topic of climate change, and he consistently references measurements of carbon’s effects and emphasizes the importance of real world measurements. His criticism is of abstract models of climate that attempt to make long term predictions.

If you’re most familiar with his positions through quotes and third hand reporting, I encourage you to listen to videos of him. I found him quite enjoyable to listen to. He was not the partisan he was sometimes painted as, although he was interviewed by people that were, but rather seemed genuinely curious and interested in truth and exploration.

Here are a few videos.

https://youtu.be/5hswLwqRIW8

https://youtu.be/8xFLjUt2leM

https://youtu.be/-mmI6DorL_Y?t=3m07s

His core claims appear to be that A) Increased CO2 has measurable, beneficial effects B) CO2 is one of many factors contributing to a complex system effecting climate that we don’t fully comprehend C) The positive or negative effects of climate change we’re observing depend on the region D) It is better to create a wide range of practical engineering solutions to deal with the effects of a changing climate than to think we can fully control it or know what effect our interventions or lack thereof will do in the future.

Some of those claims might be wrong, but I think it’s inaccurate to say they weren’t scientifically based.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#252

Post by irthomasthomas »

morphle wrote: post #124

Freeman Dyson exposed and explained Richard Feynmans genius to the world, but he had better blue thoughts (see my other links in this discussion) than Feynman had ("Plenty Of Room At The Bottom"), on a par with Alan Kay's blue thoughts. He imagined the Dyson Sphere that set me on my path to Science, Carl Sagan just gave the last push. He imagined the space chicken and the Kuiper belt/Oort cloud plants. His carbon cyc…

Blue thoughts?

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#253

Post by BalinKing »

v77 wrote: post #122
Causality1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a fundamental misunderstanding of the definition of "observer" in quantum physics? To "observe" is to cause a quantum system to interact in such a way that collapses probabilities. Whether there is a living observer is totally irrelevant.

I would say this is considered an open question.

AFAIK the details are unknown (e.g. what constitutes the boundary between the “measuring” system and the one that’s being “measured”), but the “alive”-ness of the observer is definitely known to be irrelevant.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#254

Post by jdm2212 »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #110

"The technologies which have had the most profound effects on human life are usually simple. A good example of a simple technology with profound historical consequences is hay. Nobody knows who invented hay, the idea of cutting grass in the autumn and storing it in large enough quantities to keep horses and cows alive through the winter. All we know is that the technology of hay was unknown to the Roman Empire but wa…

This appears to be untrue:

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/32538/was-hay-in...

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#255

Post by BoorishBears »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #216
adpirz wrote: post #46

I really feel like it's worth having this discussion: the black bar for Freeman Dyson, but not for Katherine Johnson who died earlier this week. At the time I thought it was likely because she wasn't _directly_ involved in computing and tried to write it off, but Freeman seems to be as related to the page as her. I bring it up because it really does speak to how a community decides who they want to include or not. Un…

I've heard of a Dyson Sphere. I had to look up who Katherine Johnson was. I'm a woman and I'm painfully aware that women and other underrepresented groups face uphill battles to have a career at all and these battles are worthy of note in their own right. I don't know what the solution is. I think about such things a great deal and wonder a lot what I would need to do to achieve recognition for my work and not for "a…

What on earth is this screed about.

Besides the fact Kathrine Johnson's achievements start NASA stand up outside of her race and gender (literally being trusted over computers and programs that sent people into space)

Your analogy with Steven Hawkins is so incredibly stupid and insulting.

Her race isn’t relevant just because blacks are underrepresented.

It’s because SHE LIVED IN THE RACIALLY SEGREGATED SOUTH.

How foolish is it to act like her race is some aside like a fucking wheelchair when she lived in an era where her drinking at a certain water fountain was illegal because of her skin color.

And I mean, you don’t know about a lady who won a Presidential medal of freedom, has a building named after her by NASA, brought people back home from space safely, who was a subject of one of the most successful films of 2016 (a movie that Google shows as having almost 100x more reach than useless fiction like a Dyson Sphere btw) so what?

Kudos to the grandparent comment for doing what I wanted to do but wasn’t bold enough to.

Sure it doesn’t satisfy your delicate sensibilities that this is a post about someone dying, but damnit if I have thought the same thing, and damnit if this isn’t just as good a place as any.

There is no place where someone wouldn’t have tried to brush off their comment with some foolishness about “this is not the place”.

Because it’s never the right place or time when someone talks about something uncomfortable to you people.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#256

Post by DoreenMichele »

BoorishBears wrote: post #255
DoreenMichele wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of a Dyson Sphere. I had to look up who Katherine Johnson was. I'm a woman and I'm painfully aware that women and other underrepresented groups face uphill battles to have a career at all and these battles are worthy of note in their own right. I don't know what the solution is. I think about such things a great deal and wonder a lot what I would need to do to achieve recognition for my work and not for "a…

What on earth is this screed about. Besides the fact Kathrine Johnson's achievements start NASA stand up outside of her race and gender (literally being trusted over computers and programs that sent people into space) Your analogy with Steven Hawkins is so incredibly stupid and insulting. Her race isn’t relevant just because blacks are underrepresented. It’s because SHE LIVED IN THE RACIALLY SEGREGATED SOUTH. How foo…

I'm medically handicapped. I was comparing myself to Stephen Hawking, not Katherine Johnson.

I was talking about why I reflect a lot on such things.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#257

Post by BoorishBears »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #256
BoorishBears wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth is this screed about. Besides the fact Kathrine Johnson's achievements start NASA stand up outside of her race and gender (literally being trusted over computers and programs that sent people into space) Your analogy with Steven Hawkins is so incredibly stupid and insulting. Her race isn’t relevant just because blacks are underrepresented. It’s because SHE LIVED IN THE RACIALLY SEGREGATED SOUTH. How foo…

I'm medically handicapped. I was comparing myself to Stephen Hawking, not Katherine Johnson. I was talking about why I reflect a lot on such things.

You were comparing her by proxy with yourself

>”that I tend to get attention for all the wrong reasons routed in my gender.”

You’re clearly trying to imply the merit for her would be the fact she’s a black female, why even bother trying to imply otherwise

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#258

Post by DoreenMichele »

BoorishBears wrote: post #257
DoreenMichele wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm medically handicapped. I was comparing myself to Stephen Hawking, not Katherine Johnson. I was talking about why I reflect a lot on such things.

You were comparing her by proxy with yourself >”that I tend to get attention for all the wrong reasons routed in my gender.” You’re clearly trying to imply the merit for her would be the fact she’s a black female, why even bother trying to imply otherwise

I engaged the comment with a comment of my own out of respect, not hostility. If I really desired to shut the discussion down, I would not have added to it. I would have flagged it and downvoted it.

I appear to be the highest ranked openly female member on Hacker News. I appear to be the only openly female member to have ever spent time on the leader board.

I was homeless for nearly six years. I hit the leader board about a month after getting back into housing. So I got most of that karma while homeless -- while I was extremely dirt poor and something of a social outcast.

I'm sympathetic to the OPs frustrations. I left the comment out of a desire to be supportive.

I realized I was taking a chance and the odds were fairly high that it would be wildly misunderstood to be the exact opposite of my intentions. I did it anyway because I felt it mattered.

I don't really intend to engage you further.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#260

Post by mannykannot »

didericis wrote: post #251
mannykannot wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, he acted like a non-expert when he hand-waved away quantitative arguments. Being wary of long-term predictions does not in any way justify using claims that are not even predictions, in any scientific sense, to argue for the opposite outcome.

I disagree about him hand-waving away quantitative arguments. I’ve watched a number of relatively lengthy interviews and presentations he’s given that have been about or have touched on the topic of climate change, and he consistently references measurements of carbon’s effects and emphasizes the importance of real world measurements. His criticism is of abstract models of climate that attempt to make long term predi…

The A, B, C and D are exactly the sort of places where he raises an issue and then starts handwaving over the quantitative questions that should be the next step, while at the same time dismissing and even belittling the work who have looked into these issues in more detail. For example, when he claims effects will balance out, it is just his opinion - he does not offer a quantitative scientific justification. He starts with something that is science-based, but he doesn't follow through.

There is also something of the motte-and-bailey fallacy when he claims that the modeling is not accurate enough to be trusted, while also telling us how things are going to work out.

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