Freeman Dyson Has Died • Hacker News Board

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#121

Post by v77 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

josephpmay wrote: post #62

rtrunck wrote: post #2

“It is remarkable that mind enters into our awareness of nature on two separate levels. At the highest level, the level of human consciousness, our minds are somehow directly aware of the complicated flow of electrical and chemical patterns in our brains. At the lowest level, the level of single atoms and electrons, the mind of an observer is again involved in the description of events. Between lies the level of mole…

That quote is mindblowing. I don't think I've ever heard an argument for free will on a sub-atomic level. It never crossed my mind that that was a position someone could conceivably hold. But it's weirdly comforting- it almost feels religious- and I'm now thinking about how that would affect emergence.

This is fairly well-known stance and the intersection of consciousness and quantum decoherence is something people talk about quite a bit. Check out Sean Carroll's stuff for a lot of good discussion on this.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#122

Post by v77 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

Causality1 wrote: post #77

samatman wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conway (yep, that Conway) and Kochen elaborate on this in the Strong Free Will Theorem: https://www.ams.org/notices/200902/rtx090200226p.pdf

Isn't that a fundamental misunderstanding of the definition of "observer" in quantum physics? To "observe" is to cause a quantum system to interact in such a way that collapses probabilities. Whether there is a living observer is totally irrelevant.

I would say this is considered an open question.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#123

Post by AceJohnny2 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

astrophysician wrote: post #5

About 4 years ago, I was a grad student in astrophysics at Princeton. Dyson worked at the Institute for Advanced Study which, while not officially part of the university was essentially an extension of the various departments (shared colloquiums, any researcher there was a valid thesis adviser, etc.). The grad students have a tradition (or used to) called “Thunch” (Thursday Lunch) where they invite someone to come ha…

> the guy was a living legend.

And now he's a legend.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#124

Post by morphle » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 8:59 PM UTC

Freeman Dyson exposed and explained Richard Feynmans genius to the world, but he had better blue thoughts (see my other links in this discussion) than Feynman had ("Plenty Of Room At The Bottom"), on a par with Alan Kay's blue thoughts.

He imagined the Dyson Sphere that set me on my path to Science, Carl Sagan just gave the last push.

He imagined the space chicken and the Kuiper belt/Oort cloud plants.

His carbon cycle ideas have still not been researched seriously.

His essay on the origens of life (started by Gödel) are still ringing in my brain.

His view of big Napoleon versus small tabletop science is a very valid analysis of our current crises in science and his solution is to be kind to the mad scientists and heretics.

By far his best interview is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBjVHLBEsHI&list=PLzLGaX_Jvm.... It is also on bittorrent and Peertube.

The rest of the Glorious Accident series is worth it as well, especially the group discussion at the end.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#125

Post by joering2 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

astrophysician wrote: post #5

About 4 years ago, I was a grad student in astrophysics at Princeton. Dyson worked at the Institute for Advanced Study which, while not officially part of the university was essentially an extension of the various departments (shared colloquiums, any researcher there was a valid thesis adviser, etc.). The grad students have a tradition (or used to) called “Thunch” (Thursday Lunch) where they invite someone to come ha…

Neil deGrasse Tyson?

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#126

Post by astrophysician » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #125

astrophysician wrote: post #5

About 4 years ago, I was a grad student in astrophysics at Princeton. Dyson worked at the Institute for Advanced Study which, while not officially part of the university was essentially an extension of the various departments (shared colloquiums, any researcher there was a valid thesis adviser, etc.). The grad students have a tradition (or used to) called “Thunch” (Thursday Lunch) where they invite someone to come ha…

Neil deGrasse Tyson?

NDT came to Thunch several times, but unfortunately not while I was there -- we exchanged e-mails (I was responsible for booking the Thunch guests) and he was excited to come, made tentative plans, but it ended up not working out. The guy is pretty busy these days. He was a post-doc at Princeton back in his research days, so he still keeps in touch with the department every now and then.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#127

Post by heed » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

josephpmay wrote: post #62

rtrunck wrote: post #2

“It is remarkable that mind enters into our awareness of nature on two separate levels. At the highest level, the level of human consciousness, our minds are somehow directly aware of the complicated flow of electrical and chemical patterns in our brains. At the lowest level, the level of single atoms and electrons, the mind of an observer is again involved in the description of events. Between lies the level of mole…

That quote is mindblowing. I don't think I've ever heard an argument for free will on a sub-atomic level. It never crossed my mind that that was a position someone could conceivably hold. But it's weirdly comforting- it almost feels religious- and I'm now thinking about how that would affect emergence.

I might be misinterpreting the quote but is he saying that he believes quantum particles carry at least some small degree of “consciousness” which compounds to the degree of “consciousness” we experience at our scale?

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#128

Post by jes5199 » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #102

jes5199 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure... but that means the three options are: "free will exists in atomic physics" "free will doesn't exist" "free will exists but cannot be studied". I find only one of these to be an acceptable answer.

One of those answers may be acceptable, but their acceptability cannot be studied.

yeah but you could make this argument about anything. For example: Bacteria can cause disease. Disease is metaphysical. Disease does not exist.

these are not generally considered to all be equally plausible!

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#129

Post by aeorgnoieang » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

EForEndeavour wrote: post #101

dr_dshiv wrote: post #85

A few years ago, I asked Freeman Dyson what we should teach our children so there would be more Freeman Dyson's. He gave a surprising answer. He said we should teach children to genetically "play" with plants. He thought we needed that kind of creativity as a human species if we would ever be able to populate the asteroid belt. He said that most of the surface area of the solar system is in the asteroid belt -- but t…

Isn't the large total surface area of the asteroid belt overwhelmed by drawbacks like unusability of most of it for most purposes (uneven, unstable, unshielded, etc.), and the fact that humans do really poorly in microgravity?

Those drawbacks are only true on some (possible) timescales. The biggest drawback currently, for human settlement of the asteroid belt, is that we can't afford to send anyone there!

Freeman Dyson's the person after which the Dyson sphere is named, so the current (relative) "unusability" of asteroids or the fact that humans currently seem to "do really poorly in microgravity" are 'just' additional obstacles to be overcome sometime in the future from the perspective in which space megastructures are possible.

Re: Freeman Dyson Has Died

#130

Post by tartoran » Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 9:22 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #104

tzs wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of this depends on how big a change there is in movement? Would a lifelong couch potato for whom their post fall movement is only a few percent less than what it was before the fall be less affected than someone who had been very active before their fall and had to cut their movement by 95%?

My mother who is 83 works out with a trainer who focuses on the elderly 3 times a week. All they do is stretching and balance exercises. To paraphrase her, at this age not falling is far more important then 45 minutes on the exercise bike.

Yes, mobility and balance are sometimes overlooked with the regular bike exercises. Simply walking provides both if done properly (on a treadmill is not exactly the same thing for balance but better than none). I sometimes see some elders hiking and wish to be just like that at their age.