Here's something I've never understood, although I suspect the question is an open one even among medical professionals: Given that inflammation is an immune response, is it the inflammation itself that's bad, or the underlying condition? If we only treated inflammation symptoms without curing any of the underlying diseases, would there be a significant improvement in outcomes? Or would they be worse because you'd be…
Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
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Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#12Here's something I've never understood, although I suspect the question is an open one even among medical professionals: Given that inflammation is an immune response, is it the inflammation itself that's bad, or the underlying condition? If we only treated inflammation symptoms without curing any of the underlying diseases, would there be a significant improvement in outcomes? Or would they be worse because you'd be…
It's true, though, that for really severe inflammation disorders that doctors start prescribing systemic immunosuppressants, which then result in the patient getting real illnesses more often. Often the patient has such a bad condition at that point - my psoriasis leads to skin flaking off in bloody patches and smearing blood on the things I touch and my hands feeling like sand paper to other people, for example - that they prefer this overall.
Even the localized topical immunosuppressants like hydrocortisone cream have negative side effects like skin thinning, but I think everyone using those agrees it's better than the extra inflammation.
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#13Today I learned that "hippocampus" comes from the Greek for "seahorse", because it looks like a seahorse: https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52ec8c1ae4b047...
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#14The only constant in all is an allergy and a cyst causing constant swelling and inflammation. The technical appearance of this, and lab results, never looks very bad, and doctors are quick to discard the cyst as a source of my problems.
I'm at the end of my wits, and my mind and body are deteriorating further and I find it hard to muster up the energy to try and resolve this with ever more visits to doctors. My physicians are not concerned enough to try and resolve this quickly, because I still appear fine. I can function normally for a while. But working 9-5 and having a life is honestly above my limit. I don't dare press the issue too much because doctors are quick to jump to psychological-issues-are-the-source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_symptom_disorder) . Physician visits and different things are spaced so widely that a lot of times passes, and I'm still supposed to wait longer and go step-by-step.
After all this time, and a lot chasing ideas and trying out smaller remedies, I arrived at the conclusion/idea that it was the cyst and the inflammation and possibly recurrent colonisation with bacertia from it all along. The cyst that I was told was not an issue.
It's a miracle that I founded and still have a family. I appreciate all the good things I received and achieved, but honest to god large parts of the way were miserable, and I'm afraid to find out that it's not going to get better.
P.S.: Sorry for venting
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#15Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#16I'm in my thirties and had unresolved medical issues for a decade. And in that time experienced much of our health system including visiting psychologists and taking antidepressants. And nothing really helped. The only thing that happened is that I learned to live with it. The only constant in all is an allergy and a cyst causing constant swelling and inflammation. The technical appearance of this, and lab results, n…
Constantly told it was depression or anxiety.
Turned out it was an auto immune problem.
Anti depressants made me care less about problems but didn’t fix them.
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#17This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ As well as the general population where illness is involved: https://psychcentral.com/news/2019/12/01/inflammation-linked... And it contributes to a variety of disorders (potentially almost all of them). The research here is pretty…
Here are my thoughts on why it’s not in the zeitgeist to the level you’d expect:
1) A lot of people have normalized to inflammation and just assume that’s how their brains function
2) In addition to the “obvious” things like diet and exercise, there’s a significant impact through environment: lack of clean fresh air, mold, detergents, building material (and/or furniture) off-gassing, dust and dander especially in the sleeping space, and so-on. In cases like this people “try eating properly”, don’t see the kind of benefits that people talk about, and write off the whole thing as a not working “for them” before going back to their original diet.
3) We rarely talk socially about symptoms like brain fog, memory lapses, mild pain, anxiousness, speediness, etc as anything related to diet or environmental exposure. Previous generations seem to have mental and emotional wellbeing the same attention as they gave to the supernatural, and we seem to have to continually shake off mindsets like “if I can’t measure it it doesn’t exist”
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#18Usually an ICU stay is the result of being profoundly and dangerously ill -- going to the ICU likely means that you need significant pharmacological and/or mechanical assistance in the basic things like... circulating blood. Or oxygenation. And once there, you may have tubes/catheters/wires in various orifices and puncturing vessels and organs. You're often medically sedated, and if you become too awake or agitated, you are sedated further. Unsurprisingly, many patients become agitated or delirious -- they don't know where they are or when it is or maybe even who they are. Which makes things worse. I mean, imagine it -- maybe you wake up in the midst of this horrendous state of affairs, and you become understandably upset and confused, but if you move around or holler (if you can) you may well get further sedated. Repeatedly. The cognitive impact of this alone can understandably be immense.
I don't mean to say that ICUs are some evil thing, though surely they could be improved. But the causes of "post-intensive care syndrome" are undoubtedly enormously multi-factorial, what with the level of derangement and insult to your body (and especially your mind!) from whatever illness led to you the ICU to begin with, and the experience of being there. And as such I am skeptical that this single protein could be terrifically useful either as a marker of or a therapeutic target for cognitive impairment in this setting.
(I think as protein mass spec and other technologies improve, we might gain a better understanding of how sets of dozens or hundreds of proteins in the body may be related to disease states, and perhaps therapies will target combinations of proteins or more complex interactions rather than "blocks this one protein".)
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#19This article brings up a specific inflammation-related protein (HMGB1) as being correlated with cognitive impairment after an ICU stay. Usually an ICU stay is the result of being profoundly and dangerously ill -- going to the ICU likely means that you need significant pharmacological and/or mechanical assistance in the basic things like... circulating blood. Or oxygenation. And once there, you may have tubes/catheter…
Re: Post-intensive care syndrome results from continuous inflammation
#20This topic is interesting to me for a few reasons... Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/ As well as the general population where illness is involved: https://psychcentral.com/news/2019/12/01/inflammation-linked... And it contributes to a variety of disorders (potentially almost all of them). The research here is pretty…
>Cognitive impairment has long been associated with inflammation in older adults: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390758/
Once upon a time, when I was an itty bitty grad student, I had an appointment with an immunology PI to ask to be involved in their research.
One of the first questions they asked me was, what's inflammation?
"You want the layman's answer or the real answer?"
"Both."
"The layman's answer is that set of cellular and biochemical reactions involved with infections and their resolution."
"And the real answer?"
"There's no such thing. 'Inflammation' is the set of cellular and molecular biology that immunologists discovered before everyone else did. There isn't a single molecule in the body that isn't involved in a wide variety of functions, and there isn't a single function -be it extracellular remodeling, monitoring of cells for expression of abnormal proteins, cell signaling, cell life cycle regulation, etc. - that doesn't hook into a hundred different functions in a hundred different contexts. 'Inflammation' refers to the lens of the person studying the thing, not the thing."
I got a happy smile and a welcome handshake with that answer.
"Inflammation" as an explanation in medicine ranks alongside "Quantum Physics" as an explanation in everything else. When someone starts citing "quantum physics" for why anything, you can safely tune them out 99.99% of the time.