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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#171

Post by einpoklum »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #93

I think there is an important point missing in the debate. This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not, what matters is whether he is expected to receive a fair trial in the US and whether the potential sentences in the US would be roughly on a par with what he'd expect for the same alleged crimes in the UK. For all I can see, this i…

> This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not,

That can't be true. For an extradition to happen, the requesting party must provide some evidence - not for a conviction, but to establish that the charges were made in good faith and that it is not unreasonable that the accused will actually be found guilty. States can't just frivolously request extradition. AFAICT.

> You can even make a case that almost nobody should be extradited to the US by any country

Yes, for the reasons you gave and others.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#172

Post by einpoklum »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #168
einpoklum wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A prominent journalist has been locked up in Belmarsh prison in harsh condition for months. Even if there was some coverage now, it's still massively undercovered. That should have been on the news just about every day or two - as a form of news media self-defense if nothing else. Politicians answer other questions should also have been asked why Assange is in custody. Not to mention the under-coverage during his yea…

> Politicians answer other questions should also have been asked why Assange is in custody. He's in custody because he's a flight risk. Are there people out there genuinely disputing this?

1. I meant, why is the government pursuing any legal action against him, not why he's in custody vs house arrest.

2. Even the claim that he is a flight risk is disputed. Assange has not ran away or hid anywhere - neither while in Sweden nor in the UK. He asked for political asylum, which is not the same as flight. Not to mention the fact that Assange is in a poor condition, physically and mentally, after years of detention and months of harsh solitary confinement, and if anything, should be transferred to a civilian medical facility for treatment and recuperation.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#173

Post by stephen_g »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #93

I think there is an important point missing in the debate. This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not, what matters is whether he is expected to receive a fair trial in the US and whether the potential sentences in the US would be roughly on a par with what he'd expect for the same alleged crimes in the UK. For all I can see, this i…

True. Of course, that may not matter. From her behaviour, the judge appears to understand the outcome the hearing is expected to produce, and as Mr. Murray fears in the O.P, it seems like nothing said in court is going to affect that...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#174

Post by JoeSmithson »

einpoklum wrote: post #172
JoeSmithson wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Politicians answer other questions should also have been asked why Assange is in custody. He's in custody because he's a flight risk. Are there people out there genuinely disputing this?

1. I meant, why is the government pursuing any legal action against him, not why he's in custody vs house arrest. 2. Even the claim that he is a flight risk is disputed. Assange has not ran away or hid anywhere - neither while in Sweden nor in the UK. He asked for political asylum, which is not the same as flight. Not to mention the fact that Assange is in a poor condition, physically and mentally, after years of det…

The UK government are pursuing legal action against him because he is wanted in the US and the US government submitted an extradition request under the US-UK extradition treaty, and Assange is appealing it

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#175

Post by dwild »

have_faith wrote: post #120
Zenst wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only so much space front pages have and much more impacting news events transpiring currently. The aspect as you say that even the Guardian has no mention of this upon its front page, should be testament to that, more so as they would be the first ones in many eyes to jump all over this if it was felt by them to be front page material over other content. However - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/2…

Fair point regarding it perhaps not being a token article. What I was trying to express is the lack of attention the trial is receiving, no one I know has mentioned it because the media has decided not to give it any obvious coverage, obvious in the sense that people realise it is something that is currently happening. The Guardian has chosen many mundane subjects to grace it's homepage that I think most readers woul…

The article he linked is in the frontpage of The Guardian right now, under Headlines.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#176

Post by devilcius »

I found the article valuable and also a bit ironic that the only method to donate to this blogger, apart from a bank transfer, is PayPal. (In case anyone does not remember, they suspended Wikileaks account in 2010.)

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#177

Post by wazoox »

Traster wrote: post #65
celticninja wrote: post #32

The judge has basically said this is a politically motivated extradition, and the court is fine with that. I hope that this get appealed to a higher court and it's not left to this hostile judge.

The judge hasn't said that at all. The judge said that the UK law as a matter of fact doesn't bar extraditions for political reasons - so the defense has to prove the treaty is legally binding on the court as a pre-condition for even making the argument that extradition should be stopped because its politically motivated.

International treaties are more binding than domestic law, as the Vienna Convention: https://www.oas.org/legal/english/docs/Vienna%20Convention%2...

“A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty.“

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#178

Post by [deleted] »

mcv wrote: post #95
joosters wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, from the very first paragraph, this website doesn't come across as anything close to impartial either. So I'd suggest you find some more sources before you criticize the judge.

True. Like I said: "from this description". No idea how accurate it is. It would be good to have other sources.

[deleted]

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#179

Post by fluuuhi »

have_faith wrote: post #120
Zenst wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only so much space front pages have and much more impacting news events transpiring currently. The aspect as you say that even the Guardian has no mention of this upon its front page, should be testament to that, more so as they would be the first ones in many eyes to jump all over this if it was felt by them to be front page material over other content. However - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/2…

Fair point regarding it perhaps not being a token article. What I was trying to express is the lack of attention the trial is receiving, no one I know has mentioned it because the media has decided not to give it any obvious coverage, obvious in the sense that people realise it is something that is currently happening. The Guardian has chosen many mundane subjects to grace it's homepage that I think most readers woul…

"decided" versus do give it a different priority then you do.

They are much further away from this story as we are. I can ask plenty of people whats up with assange and they will just not know anything much.

There might be no article from him today but i have read plenty of articles about him the last few weeks. Including the criticisim of how he gets treated.

So what is the real issue? I would say none. Would i say there is some deliberate action going on? Also no.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#180

Post by stephen_g »

kmlx wrote: post #123
jonathanstrange wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way somebody could face in Germany for whistleblowing (or computer hacking, etc.) the same as what Assange is facing in the US if he's extradited. The alleged crimes they've stacked up against him have a maximum sentence of 175 years in prison. It's simply ridiculous.

aren't the US Gov claiming people died due to his hacking?

Trying to, although they admitted in Chelsey Manning’s court martial that nobody was injured as a result.
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