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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#161

Post by einpoklum »

andrepd wrote: post #122
101404 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting learning was, how to most effectively frame a person if you want them to lose public support. They first did the "rapist" framing. Making up a case that never existed and repeating it in the media all the time. Surprisingly, that didn't work as effectivity as expected. So they switched the framing from "rapist" to "right wing". That seems to have achieved the intended outcome with many previous support…

>So they switched the framing from "rapist" to "right wing". I don't know who is "they" but the shift in perception didn't need any prompting from anyone. It was Assange that started acting as Russia's stooge.

He "stated acting as Russia's stooge" when the Clinton people decided Russia was to blame for their 2016 elections campaign failing. Then suddenly everybody and their uncle became a Russian asset, Russian stooge, Putin puppet and so on.

Yes yes, we've heard it all before. Over 3 years of this stuff, with no evidence of any stoogery.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#162

Post by [deleted] »

tyingq wrote: post #6
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

It won't make the US press, because all of that is a pretty typical US jail experience, sadly.

[deleted]

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#163

Post by teraku »

mft_ wrote: post #151
dean177 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession" Yes, it is exactly torture. https://apt.ch/en/what-is-torture/

Again, probably depends on which aspects of his treatment you're referring to. The original quote spoke of "twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells" - which is unpleasant treatment, but probably not hugely different from the treatment of many prisoners, fairly regularly, within our dehumanising criminal justice system. And I don't…

I mean they needed to wait for something big enough to bury it (Corona). Now's the perfect chance :kappa:

In all honesty though, there is a bunch of evidence in his US court case that basically frees him of all accusations in his british court case, but the judge refuses to accept it. Although the case is about delivering him to the US. So she denies the rightfulnes of the US court system, but wants to deliver a person to this very system???

And then there is a treaty of denying political extradictions. But then the judge said that she does not care for the treaty and only honors the UK Extraction Act, which does not mention any of it.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#164

Post by einpoklum »

mcv wrote: post #54
shadowprofile77 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no. Assange did not accuse himself of rape and then push out a media narrative about it over successive months. "They" (in this case, Swedish and other legal authorities and various news agencies did). And though the question of his level of guilt in those cases remains somewhat ambiguous as far as I know, the now dropped rape cases have the whiff of political smear to them. Regardless of Assange's merits or fa…

The way the rape case was initially dropped and then picked up again certainly seemed weird, and there may have been political pressure behind it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, though. The stories of the women involved seemed very credible, and unlikely to have been made up, considering they were supporters of him. But I totally agree that this treatment in this extradition case sounds terrible, and the judge s…

> That doesn't mean it didn't happen, though.

As you well know, it is usually impossible to prove a negative, especially when it supposedly occurred in a private setting between an accuser and an accused.

> The stories of the women involved seemed very credible, and unlikely to have been made up, considering they were supporters of him.

They did not seem very credible. That is, it is credible that they encountered Assange, but the accusations not so much. At any rate, they were not credible enough for the Swedish authorities to decide to indict Assange (which they could have done).

> In any case, Assange is a controversial figure. ... I am concerned by the rape stories. I agree he's being made an example of for political reasons ... but that doesn't ... mean he's entirely innocent

Assange's current imprisonment is not about any allegations of sexual misconduct. He is not accused of any of that. Also, be aware that Assange was _made_ controversial by the treatment of those allegations and by the UK's insistence to put Assange in custody. Yet we know that the UK was motivated not by the Swedish affair but by the US, and went as far as to pressure Sweden not to drop their extradition request. So, regardless of whether you are skeptical of Assange's personal/sexual conduct - that matter was cynically used to persecute him politically.

And thus IMO you too have been manipulated to effectively support Assange's ordeal, including the extradition possibility, because of your - understandable - concern for possible victims of sexual misconduct.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#165

Post by Fjolsvith »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #61
k1m wrote: post #13

Murray's report of the first day of the trial also worth reading: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-...

Interesting. > Extradition hearings are not held at Belmarsh Magistrates Court inside Woolwich Crown Court. They are always held at Westminster Magistrates Court as the application is deemed to be delivered to the government at Westminster. Now get your head around this. This hearing is at Westminster Magistrates Court. It is being held by the Westminster magistrates and Westminster court staff, but located at Belmar…

> when the entire media has abandoned that role.

Exactly. Almost as if the media as a whole gets orders to follow.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#166

Post by fit2rule »

bilekas wrote: post #55
fit2rule wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real cunts are those justifying war crimes and continued criminal, illegal crimes against humanity in the form of the 5-eyes imperialist wars. Not a word of criticism about those guys, eh - no, instead, we'll just shoot the messenger. There will be more leaks, Assange or not. The truth is, there are far, far more worse crimes committed by the 5-eyes Coalition to be revealed on the horizon. Assange is just one of…

> The real cunts are those justifying war crimes and continued criminal, illegal crimes against humanity in the form of the 5-eyes imperialist wars. Not a word of criticism about those guys, eh - no, instead, we'll just shoot the messenger. Thats a different topic and a different discussion, but sure, you just throw them all in together becase you have an opinion on one of them. > blowing the lid on the Wests' illega…

The West = The 5-eyes Coalition. The ones who tried to start World War 3 in 2003, and haven't stopped trying since.

2,000,000 innocent people murdered. That is quite cunty.

Assange is a shining light on the darkness that is Western ignorance of the true cost of its heinous, illegal wars.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#167

Post by einpoklum »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #119
mcv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As pointed out elsewhere, the rape allegations are credible. And while I'm not calling him a right-wing zealot, and considered him left-libertarian for his dedication to free information and opposition to censorship, he did at some point seem to work with Trump and Russia in order to falsely discredit Clinton and get Trump elected. So again, there is evidence to support it.

Muellers report doesn't say so, I've read the whole thing from cover to cover and they do talk about him a lot. Yes, he was useful for Russia, just like he was when the American liberals hailed him as a hero and next Jesus when he was beneficial for them, shat on Bush, leaked Palin's emails etc. All politics are full of hypocritical behavior but Americans sure put it to next level, possibly because of the two party s…

It should be noted that Mueller's report - the redacted version at least - doesn't contain evidence for any of the claims it does make. So even if Mueller had concluded "Wikileaks was working with Russia", you would not have found any basis for the claim in that report, besides more assertions to that effect.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#168

Post by JoeSmithson »

einpoklum wrote: post #156
mnem wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick search using Google news in the UK shows that all the main broadsheets and many of the tabloids have Assange related stories over the past several days at least. I don’t think it’s fair to characterise the media as disinterested.

A prominent journalist has been locked up in Belmarsh prison in harsh condition for months. Even if there was some coverage now, it's still massively undercovered. That should have been on the news just about every day or two - as a form of news media self-defense if nothing else. Politicians answer other questions should also have been asked why Assange is in custody. Not to mention the under-coverage during his yea…

> Politicians answer other questions should also have been asked why Assange is in custody.

He's in custody because he's a flight risk. Are there people out there genuinely disputing this?

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#169

Post by JoeSmithson »

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #112
mft_ wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tortured? I mean, some of what you describe is unpalatable, unpleasant, and maybe (IANAL) contrary to expected standards of the treatment of prisoners... but tortured ?

Excuse me, solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year is torture, cruel, and unjust for a simple, nonviolent skipping bail charge. This sort of thing should've been 2 months at a minimum security prison in genpop at the most. This is purely political persecution by British toadies of American hegemony. If you can't see any of this, then you are blind.

Assange is not in solitary confinement. This has been confirmed by Nils Melzer himself. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#170

Post by jstewartmobile »

baud147258 wrote: post #69

Why is he calling Bellingcat a warmongering propaganda operations and saying they've got a "source of state, corporate or institutional finance"? I though they were independent

Because it is. It's just some finance guy in his drawers making shit up over videos shot halfway across the world.

Read up on this guy. One glance at his fat pasty face, and it's obvious that he's never been anywhere near a war zone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins

edit: and since DyslexicAtheist has been grayed out, I will second his "hope the Russians slip him something into his tea one day."

to r721: for warmongers, yes.

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