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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#71

Post by [deleted] »

saiya-jin wrote: post #53
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

> Until recently Amnesty International refused to even recognize Assange as a political prisoner, and the only thing they had said about him was that he was "not a political prisoner". That... is saddening. I donate cca 120$ to AI every 6 months believing they would right some wrongs out there where it matters, but I'll strongly consider dropping this. Maybe they don't have balls to go directly against US government,…

[deleted]

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#72

Post by richrichardsson »

EliRivers wrote: post #42
cryptonym wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own belief: it's unfair to attack his credibility without providing anything about the content of this post. If something is not accurate here, please let us know, that would be valuable.

My belief; it is not unfair (he is deliberately presenting himself as a source of truth in the matter, publicly and openly), and I did not attack his credibility. I invited you to consider the source. Perhaps you conclude, after consideration, that he is an especially credible source.

> Craig Murray's website suggests he is, for example, a credulous believer of Russian explanations for events. He does on occasion correct himself (such as in his post about the famed picture of two different people walking through two different channels - https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-impossib.... ) but nonetheless he has a long-standing mindset which will temper his beliefs and of course colour everything he sees and his interpretations thereof.

and you somehow think

> I did not attack his credibility

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#74

Post by EliRivers »

doe88 wrote: post #10
EliRivers wrote: post #2

Consider the source, right? Always ask ourselves "What does this source, this reporter, this organisation, want us to think?" That doesn't mean that we have to ignore everything they say; it just becomes us to know what the source's own agenda is, to better arm ourselves. Craig Murray's website suggests he is, for example, a credulous believer of Russian explanations for events. He does on occasion correct himself (s…

The Guardian (never to be accused of outlandish sympathies toward Assange) https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/25/julian-assange...

I'll be honest; I genuinely don't know how many times I would expect someone to have handcuffs attached and released in such circumstances. Is eleven times a lot? The Guardian doesn't actually express whether this is excessive or lenient.

The Guardian doesn't seem to make any comment on that. I would expect his defence lawyer to complain about his conditions no matter what.

The article headlines with thehandcuffs, but the vast majority of the article is nothing to do with that. So honestly no idea on that one; feels like a headline designed to attract attention and maybe spark outrage based on a reader's pre-conceived ideas without actually making any value judgement.

I get it, he's Assange, the state is bad, he's a whipping boy. Probably all true. Really, I think he's going to get a raw deal in this and I think the states involved have really spent too much time and effort chasing something that really won't benefit them, and perhaps not with as much fairness as we'd like.

But the breathless rush with which people run to believe is disconcerting.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#75

Post by simiones »

mcv wrote: post #39
resters wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You believe that Assange is both a rapist and a right wing zealot? There is no evidence to support either claim.

As pointed out elsewhere, the rape allegations are credible. And while I'm not calling him a right-wing zealot, and considered him left-libertarian for his dedication to free information and opposition to censorship, he did at some point seem to work with Trump and Russia in order to falsely discredit Clinton and get Trump elected. So again, there is evidence to support it.

As pointed out by the UN Special Rapporteur on torture, they were not, and the Swedish authorities did everything to indicate that they didn't care about Assange's answers, they just wanted to force him out of the embassy.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#76

Post by pharke »

bilekas wrote: post #58
henearkr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. It goes hand-in-hand with the existence of conflicts and international tensions. Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage lots of citizens while protecting their privacy, and for that we already have a lot of anonymization techs, using hashs, and sym or asym ciphers, etc... th…

> That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. The world doesn't work that way. It probably wont for a long time so grow up. > Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage same as above, I agree with you, but reality is what it is. > that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it... Yup again a…

Nothing will ever change if no one expresses their desire for it to. New ideas and ways of life only win out when the people chanting "it is what it is" are drowned out by those shouting "it shouldn't be so!"

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#77

Post by EliRivers »

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #21
EliRivers wrote: post #2

Consider the source, right? Always ask ourselves "What does this source, this reporter, this organisation, want us to think?" That doesn't mean that we have to ignore everything they say; it just becomes us to know what the source's own agenda is, to better arm ourselves. Craig Murray's website suggests he is, for example, a credulous believer of Russian explanations for events. He does on occasion correct himself (s…

Craig Murray is a former career diplomat and UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, who got railroaded out of the foreign service for having the temerity to note that Uzbek leader Islam Karimov was (literally) boiling his opponents to death. If this is an agenda, I support it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray Also: https://archive.is/20061012215514/http://www.craigmurray.co....

Boom. Here's someone considering the source. Well done 9nGQluzmnq3M. I bet very few people actually did.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#78

Post by [deleted] »

henearkr wrote: post #60
bilekas wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. The world doesn't work that way. It probably wont for a long time so grow up. > Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage same as above, I agree with you, but reality is what it is. > that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it... Yup again a…

Just because the law requires us to give our data to the government. And the government has all legal means to collect the data in the first place.

[deleted]

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#79

Post by 101404 »

ganzuul wrote: post #9

This is horrifying. As a European I'm afraid to even visit the USA. I'd expect this from some third world hellhole but not from a country which professes to have the rule of law.

It's no different here in the EU. After all, Sweden and the UK (until recently) are EU countries.

I'm from Germany, and I can totally see things like this could happen here too.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#80

Post by EliRivers »

richrichardsson wrote: post #72
EliRivers wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My belief; it is not unfair (he is deliberately presenting himself as a source of truth in the matter, publicly and openly), and I did not attack his credibility. I invited you to consider the source. Perhaps you conclude, after consideration, that he is an especially credible source.

> Craig Murray's website suggests he is, for example, a credulous believer of Russian explanations for events. He does on occasion correct himself (such as in his post about the famed picture of two different people walking through two different channels - https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-impossib... . ) but nonetheless he has a long-standing mindset which will temper his beliefs and of course colo…

Ah, I see. In which case, then yes. I attack his credibility. I attack yours. I attack mine. You are biased. I am biased. He is biased. Everything you write is tempered. Everything I write is tempered. His credibiltiy is compromised and the source must be considered, as is yours, as is mine.

This shouldn't be controversial, yet here we are. Seriously, here we are.

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