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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#51

Post by fit2rule »

bilekas wrote: post #37
AllegedAlec wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If thats right or wrong is anyones guess You're fucking joking right? Something about "cruel and unusual punishment", which is present in both English and American law. Furthermore, there's this little document called the 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights', which has stuff to say on this matter too, and has been signed by both the US and England.

I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. He's being made an example of, its clear as day. My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking. > "cruel and unusual punishment" Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped.…

The real cunts are those justifying war crimes and continued criminal, illegal crimes against humanity in the form of the 5-eyes imperialist wars. Not a word of criticism about those guys, eh - no, instead, we'll just shoot the messenger.

There will be more leaks, Assange or not. The truth is, there are far, far more worse crimes committed by the 5-eyes Coalition to be revealed on the horizon. Assange is just one of many who are working on blowing the lid on the Wests' illegal, criminal behaviour. Unfortunately for those who believe in the moral authority of the 5-eyes coalition as being irreproachable, you can't easily cover up crimes against humanity.

Be prepared for more leaks, folks. This isn't going to stop just because Assange has been kidnapped by his enemies.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#52

Post by CriticalCathed »

EliRivers wrote: post #36
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your problem is the source then read a different one. Here's the the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Nils Melzer, on Assange being tortured. https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikilea...

No problem here, buddy. Just reminding us all to consider that everything we read has an agenda. Including what I wrote, and what you wrote.

This kind of quisling act is of little value.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#53

Post by saiya-jin »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

> Until recently Amnesty International refused to even recognize Assange as a political prisoner, and the only thing they had said about him was that he was "not a political prisoner".

That... is saddening. I donate cca 120$ to AI every 6 months believing they would right some wrongs out there where it matters, but I'll strongly consider dropping this.

Maybe they don't have balls to go directly against US government, but then we are talking about huge amount of wrongs that will never be challenged.

As a non-US person, like 95% of the world, I couldn't care less if his actions of revealing massive US war atrocities and breaches of international laws potentially endanger some US spies.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#54

Post by mcv »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #22
mcv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not things that "they" did, though. They're things that "he" did.

Well, no. Assange did not accuse himself of rape and then push out a media narrative about it over successive months. "They" (in this case, Swedish and other legal authorities and various news agencies did). And though the question of his level of guilt in those cases remains somewhat ambiguous as far as I know, the now dropped rape cases have the whiff of political smear to them. Regardless of Assange's merits or fa…

The way the rape case was initially dropped and then picked up again certainly seemed weird, and there may have been political pressure behind it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, though. The stories of the women involved seemed very credible, and unlikely to have been made up, considering they were supporters of him.

But I totally agree that this treatment in this extradition case sounds terrible, and the judge seems strongly biased against him. Does not sound like a fair trial.

In any case, Assange is a controversial figure. He's done things I wholeheartedly support, and things I strongly oppose. I support his early fight against censorship and the release of the collateral murder video. I disagree with releasing all the material concerning sensitive operations unchecked and unedited. I am concerned by the rape stories, strongly oppose his self-centered grandstanding, and my working theory is that he went mad, possibly with power, due to the massive size of the Manning leaks. I supported the rape investigation, but oppose his extradition to the US, because I doubt he's ever going to get a fair trial there. And now it looks like even the extradition trial from the UK is not going to be fair.

He's a complex figure with good and bad sides. His are a bit more extreme than most. I find it hard to form a simple opinion about him, because nothing about this is simple. But it seems obvious to me that both blind support and total condemnation are wrong positions to take in this. I agree he's being made an example of for political reasons, and that's very wrong, but that doesn't automatically mean he's entirely innocent either.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#55

Post by bilekas »

fit2rule wrote: post #51
bilekas wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. He's being made an example of, its clear as day. My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking. > "cruel and unusual punishment" Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped.…

The real cunts are those justifying war crimes and continued criminal, illegal crimes against humanity in the form of the 5-eyes imperialist wars. Not a word of criticism about those guys, eh - no, instead, we'll just shoot the messenger. There will be more leaks, Assange or not. The truth is, there are far, far more worse crimes committed by the 5-eyes Coalition to be revealed on the horizon. Assange is just one of…

> The real cunts are those justifying war crimes and continued criminal, illegal crimes against humanity in the form of the 5-eyes imperialist wars. Not a word of criticism about those guys, eh - no, instead, we'll just shoot the messenger.

Thats a different topic and a different discussion, but sure, you just throw them all in together becase you have an opinion on one of them.

> blowing the lid on the Wests' illegal, criminal behaviour

Now you're throwing all the 'West' in with Assange, great.

> This isn't going to stop just because Assange has been kidnapped by his enemies.

Good, genuinely good, accountability is needed. But make no mistake, Assange is a terrible martyr to go by.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#56

Post by EliRivers »

CriticalCathed wrote: post #52
EliRivers wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No problem here, buddy. Just reminding us all to consider that everything we read has an agenda. Including what I wrote, and what you wrote.

This kind of quisling act is of little value.

Look at yourself in the mirror. I invited you to consider the source. That's it. I asked you to exercise your mind, and to be careful not to accept other people's agendas, be they conscious or unconscious.

Your response to that is to attack. How dare I remind you that bias exists? Are you not shocked and horrified at your own response? You should be.

Almost none of this thread should exist. There should have been zero response to my post. It should be standard fare; that people remember to consider the sources of things they read, especially on divisive subjects. Look at the time people are now wasting on this thread. Assange is on trial, yet people are here arguing about the nature of bias, FFS.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#57

Post by AllegedAlec »

bilekas wrote: post #45
AllegedAlec wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children, which violate the Geneva Convention , as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. > He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. In what way was he not careful? > My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argumen…

> Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children,which violate the Geneva Convention, as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. He released evidence rightly so but compromising a lot of sources, methods and other info. It could have been released better. The info should have been released, my argument is not in defence of the original actions. > That's…

> He released evidence rightly so but compromising a lot of sources, methods and other info. It could have been released better. The info should have been released, my argument is not in defence of the original actions.

According to him and his lawyers he did not. The arguments for this are expanded on in the linked article.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#58

Post by bilekas »

henearkr wrote: post #41
bilekas wrote: post #15

This is always going to happen when you go about doing what he did in such a flamboyant way. I agree that he was by no means an angel, but I also see the reasons why the governments want to set an example. People have this idea that it's a terrible thing if their governments have secrets.. It's normal.. That doesn't justify this treatment of him. By any means, one would think he would be treated well in public. > Is…

That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. It goes hand-in-hand with the existence of conflicts and international tensions. Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage lots of citizens while protecting their privacy, and for that we already have a lot of anonymization techs, using hashs, and sym or asym ciphers, etc... th…

> That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past.

The world doesn't work that way. It probably wont for a long time so grow up.

> Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage

same as above, I agree with you, but reality is what it is.

> that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it...

Yup again agree with you. But the responsibility is on you. I really don't know why people expect it from someone else, even the government.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#60

Post by henearkr »

bilekas wrote: post #58
henearkr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. It goes hand-in-hand with the existence of conflicts and international tensions. Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage lots of citizens while protecting their privacy, and for that we already have a lot of anonymization techs, using hashs, and sym or asym ciphers, etc... th…

> That "it's normal" that governments have secrets is something that should be of the past. The world doesn't work that way. It probably wont for a long time so grow up. > Which I also think should be of the past, for the sake of it. Then there is the way to manage same as above, I agree with you, but reality is what it is. > that's just a matter of now doing it instead of just knowing how we can do it... Yup again a…

Just because the law requires us to give our data to the government. And the government has all legal means to collect the data in the first place.
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