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In Britain, even jails have a class system

theatlantic.com

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Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#141

Post by imgabe »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #139
dmix wrote: post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

Actually zoning laws are a pretty good idea. I don't assume that you want to live near a tannery, or a brothel[1], no? What you're referring to and which was an utterly racist policy is red lining[2] [1] Legal in a lot of places in an appropriate zone. [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

There's a vast ocean of difference between "don't build a tannery here" and "the only thing you can build here is a single family home on a minimum quarter-acre lot"

Problems with zoning laws are independent of red lining.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#142

Post by lotsofpulp »

stronglikedan wrote: post #76
jgwil2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The externalities of North American-style sprawl (road congestion, pollution, etc) are pretty unambiguously harmful.

I'm just saying that the same could be said for cities and rural areas, just different (and some same) harmful effects, which makes suburbanization a bad example. One is not worse than the other - it's just a different set of trade-offs. It's nice that we all don't have to cram into uncomfortable cities or suffer through the banalities of rural areas, if we don't want to.

> It's nice that we all don't have to cram into uncomfortable cities or suffer through the banalities of rural areas, if we don't want to.

It’s nice because it’s the future generations that will have to pay for it.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#144

Post by andrepd »

dmix wrote: post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

>Consequently the whole war on drugs is the perfect example of unintended side-effects.

It was anything but unintended.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#145

Post by girvo »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #139
dmix wrote: post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

Actually zoning laws are a pretty good idea. I don't assume that you want to live near a tannery, or a brothel[1], no? What you're referring to and which was an utterly racist policy is red lining[2] [1] Legal in a lot of places in an appropriate zone. [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

Having lived near brothels for nearly a decade, it's honestly better than living near bars/pubs in terms of impact on my day-to-day. What's the issue with it that you're getting at?

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#146

Post by kyuudou »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #79
mytailorisrich wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the elephant in the room: How can they "find" anything in prison? The only answer is corruption of the prison staff. That has to be the root cause. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-pris...

In a minimum security facility there are often no fences. I was at Morgantown and you could get anything you wanted for approximately 4x the retail value. It was so fucking hot there guys would have their families buy a "prison" issue fan on Amazon and send it to someone who's family lived in Morgantown. Then they'd run out and bring it back in the middle of the night. Cigarettes were $2 each or $20 for a pack. Dip i…

I've heard stories about people improvising "hooch" by letting apple or orange juice sit around and ferment and using that as a trade item for the other usual stuff. When I got stuck in a similar minimum security facility (no cells, just half-walls between groups of 4 beds so there was lots of socializing going on), people would trade their prescribed Seroquels and other such meds similarly.

I also found out about "making spread" and was amazed at the ingenuity of some folks and what they could do with ramen, water, some crumbled up cheetos and a pound cake. And how this was used in the internal economy. Fascinating stuff.

On the negative side, most of the people were in there for petty drug offenses, e.g. victimless crimes not involving violence which upset me greatly. Such a shame since most of these guys were obviously above-average IQ and otherwise nice, sometimes charismatic people. What a waste of tax dollars and lives.

So many stories just from my short stay there.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#147

Post by kyuudou »

gavinray wrote: post #80
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…

This is not true, I had a troubled youth and did a short stint in my late teens for trespassing. There are a lot of ways you can get drugs in to prison without the aid of guards. - Repeat offenders used to getting arrested (particularly drug dealers) would carry their drugs in what is termed a cock sock , which is as you may guess, a sock worn around the male bits to hold things. They would tie pre-weighed bags of dr…

>The American criminal justice system is one of the most dehumanizing, corrupt, and inhumane places I have ever seen.

So this. There's an entire stack of industries that thrive on this inhumanity, too e.g. Corrections Corporation of America, all the medical, legal and culinary/janitorial staff, lawyers and their retainers...

Then again, I've heard jails in other countries are considerably worse, with dirt floors and 20 people in a cell, like Brazil. That doesn't mean we shouldn't improve the criminal justice system here in the US and decrease the abuse of basic human rights in its correctional facilities, though.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#148

Post by gdy »

wpietri wrote: post #41
jsjddbbwj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with hierarchies?

I am having trouble taking this as a sincere question. You've honestly never seen or heard of hierarchical power being misused? I mean, just to pick one enormous historical trend, there's a reason the world has mostly gotten rid of monarchies, and it's not because we thought crowns and scepters were maybe a bit tacky.

Think about captain on a ship.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#149

Post by lainga »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #132
dmix wrote: post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

> The general public gets very vindictive This is a serious problem. Lots of people openly support violence, torture, rape and murder as long as they happen to prisoners. It's all part of the punishment.

Can you think of a time or condition in the past when Americans were more amenable to rehabilitation?

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#150

Post by barrkel »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #139
dmix wrote: post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

Actually zoning laws are a pretty good idea. I don't assume that you want to live near a tannery, or a brothel[1], no? What you're referring to and which was an utterly racist policy is red lining[2] [1] Legal in a lot of places in an appropriate zone. [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

At least brothels tend to have quiet clientele who want to arrive and leave without attention.

Tannery would be fine as long as it doesn't smell. Externalities are reasons for regulation and licensing, but zoning is just one extremely crude tool for enacting such.

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