> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…
While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure suburbanization is a good example. Some people, like me, like the suburban lifestyle and thrive in it. Others prefer city or rural. When dealing with a matter of opinion, I'm not sure one can say that suburbanization "hurts" communities - anymore than any other type of zoning, at least.
In Britain, even jails have a class system
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Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure. Humans are also naturally violent. We naturally get tuberculosis, too. As conscious beings, it's up to us to decide the good and bad in our natural heritage. To amplify the former and mitigate the latter.
The analogy I use for this is gravity vs. space travel. Anyone who says "gravity is the natural state of nature, it's impossible to fly or go to space" would clearly be wrong. Yet someone who says "gravity is a social construct, if you're not able to fly, just flap your arms harder" is wrong as well. To overcome gravity requires a deeply precise and intricate understanding of gravity. So it is with human nature: the…
To me the two poles here are the naturalistic fallacy and the moralistic fallacy. The former is basically "what is natural is right", and the latter is "what is right is true". Both of them for me are Mencken's "clear, simple, and wrong".
"Natural" is basically a billion years of historical accidents, so there's no reason to expect it to be optimal from our perspective. We need to think about what we truly want the world to be. But we can't assume that the world is just going to be like we want. As when building anything, we must look closely at the characteristics of the raw materials and work with them to achieve our goals.
Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
had he said black or jewish criminals you would have been raging on twitter spewing woke slogans. he was simply singling out an ethnicity, the english criminal did.
Oh must have missed Romanian is an ethnicity and not a nationality.
Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#74Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that left-wing authoritarianism is as bad as right-wing authoritarianism. But thinking that the only alternative to hierarchical power is chaos is going to be one sort of authoritarianism or another. As I explain elsewhere in this thread, one alternative of hierarchical authority is carefully limited, distributed power. There are historical examples of it working pretty well for hundreds of years: https://new…
A society with hyper exaggerated social classes, with voting rights only for property owners, indentured servitude, slavery and all that was "carefully limited" in its hierarchical authority?
Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure suburbanization is a good example. Some people, like me, like the suburban lifestyle and thrive in it. Others prefer city or rural. When dealing with a matter of opinion, I'm not sure one can say that suburbanization "hurts" communities - anymore than any other type of zoning, at least.
The externalities of North American-style sprawl (road congestion, pollution, etc) are pretty unambiguously harmful.
Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#77So the Atlantic/Hellen Lewis consider it a negative that non-violent and mentally healthy people aren't housed together with violent and mentally ill ones ? Isn't this basically what the US prison reform advocates want to see their system make its way up to ?
No, the article didn't say that at all.
Anyone with basic penology background will consider it a textbook success on progressive grounds - the default in most places is that the prison "upper class" are the violent career criminals who keep the population in check for the prison guards as the white-collar prisoners pay them protection money.
Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#78Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#79> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…
This misses the elephant in the room: How can they "find" anything in prison? The only answer is corruption of the prison staff. That has to be the root cause. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-pris...
There were over 800 of us and around 10 staff on actual security detail at a time. There were maybe 40 searches a week and they were normally targeted on the people that they had suspicions about. It happened to me one time and they guy found my camel crush. Thankfully I had been there less than 3 weeks so he just assumed someone stashed it there since I moved into an empty bunk. After that I never had another issue.
Spice is horrible. We'd have people vomiting regularly. They'd get "stuck" outside when we got called back into the units. It's really gnarly stuff that I would not willingly ingest. The most popular drug was definitely suboxone. The drug tests were not working for subs when I was still there. Supposedly they were just starting to come out with some for it that the BOP used.
Every thing went in a cycle. One guy would run most of the smuggling for the white people. I'm not going to name names here, but his balance sheet showed about $75k in profit over a rolling 6 month period. Another ran it for most of the African Americans. Eventually runners would get caught or the ring leader would get busted with a cell phone. That gives you an immediate upgrade to the next highest level facility. Prices would jump until someone was crazy enough to start it all back up again.
Right before I left the biggest person got caught with a sim card. Prices for cigarettes went up to nearly $15 each. That was if you were remotely lucky enough to find one. A guy came back on probation violation and luckily enough I was his bunk mate. Things went back to regular within a couple of weeks. He made more in Morgantown than he did on the street...
Subs/meth/vape juices could be applied to paper inside of books or letters. Anything liquid and dried usually could come in that way, but in a minimum it's not even worth the hassle.
Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not necessarily. Smuggling contraband into prison has got to be as old as the existence of prison itself, and there are numerous examples of contraband being snuck in and traded without the knowledge of the staff. It’s errant to assume that all cases of contraband existing in prison is due to corrupt staff. In fact, this issue is becoming more and more of a challenge today as drone technology advances and decreases i…
Smuggling is impossible unless staff turn a blind eye, or procedures are sufficiently lax. Preventing visitors from passing things to inmates is not rocket science, if you allow visitors at all. As for drones, let me try to fly a drone over GCHQ or the Pentagon and let's see what happens... But over a prison and then actually drop something? "Oh well, what can we do? Can't even find what they drop..." The point in al…
There are a lot of ways you can get drugs in to prison without the aid of guards.
- Repeat offenders used to getting arrested (particularly drug dealers) would carry their drugs in what is termed a cock sock, which is as you may guess, a sock worn around the male bits to hold things. They would tie pre-weighed bags of drugs up in balloons, and if it smelled they were going to get arrested they would make an attempt to dig them out and swallow them, and then erm, retreive them later in the jail.
- A more creative way was for spouses/relatives to soak certain types of paper in a liquid solution in which had been dissolved drugs like meth, and then allowed to dry. The paper was then written on like a regular letter, and sprayed with perfume (which is a very normal thing in jail/prison) to mask any trace scent of the drug and the fact that it looked like it had been wet and dried.
- Inmates that were in the lower-security units such as day workers, in which they were taken out during the day to perform community service under supervision, would devise elaborate plans to smuggle things in. There were certain work areas that had things like public restrooms, and they would phone a girlfriend/wife the day before to go drop a bag of drugs in the ceiling of the bathroom and then retrieve it while working there the next day. They would place it you know where to avoid having it found when they were strip-searched when taken back to the unit. This was rare though, and more common was that they would pick up cigarette butts as they worked, empty out any remaining tobacco, and then stash it you know where in some sort of balloon/saran wrap to bring back to the unit to smoke. This was done by popping a socket, which is where you use pencil lead stuck inside of an outlet to spark a piece of paper (typically from a book or newspaper) rolled with aforementioned garbage-tobacco.
IF I HAVE ANYONE'S ATTENTION:
The American criminal justice system is one of the most dehumanizing, corrupt, and inhumane places I have ever seen.
I saw inmates have bones broken by guards for saying things they didn't like. They are not allowed to throw punches or kicks during restraints, so what they do is put 3-4 guards on a man and will repeatedly knee/elbow them, particularly in the head, whilst screaming STOP RESISTING, despite there being zero resistance.
It was a common tactic for them to strip a person to their underwear, and put them in a restraint-chair [0] with a hood over their face so that they cant see or move any limb, and then wheel them off to a back room and accidentally forget about them for 4-8 hours.
I don't have anything else to say besides the fact that I want to raise awareness for any of you who may not know what our justice system is like.