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In Britain, even jails have a class system

theatlantic.com

131–140 of 183 posts

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the elephant in the room: How can they "find" anything in prison? The only answer is corruption of the prison staff. That has to be the root cause. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-pris...

In a minimum security facility there are often no fences. I was at Morgantown and you could get anything you wanted for approximately 4x the retail value. It was so fucking hot there guys would have their families buy a "prison" issue fan on Amazon and send it to someone who's family lived in Morgantown. Then they'd run out and bring it back in the middle of the night. Cigarettes were $2 each or $20 for a pack. Dip i…

Sounds strange maybe but, does everyone have to participate in black markets? Are there any penalties for just being without vices like you mentioned?

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#132
post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

> The general public gets very vindictive

This is a serious problem. Lots of people openly support violence, torture, rape and murder as long as they happen to prisoners. It's all part of the punishment.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#133
post #2

A fictionalized example is in the original (1969) film "The Italian Job".

And also the UK TV series Porridge - which probably never got shown on US television.

Great TV show/comedy, but for a more realistic insight into prisons of the time, the film Scum(1979) seems more on the nail.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079871/

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#134
post #19

> In June 2016 [...] He was sentenced to five years in prison and sent to Wandsworth > He was released in December 2018. Theses 5 years were pretty fast

They literally give you a 50% discount on that prison time by default and the rest you are released on probation, miss appointment or any crime and straight in front of a judge and can easily end up serving the rest of the sentence.

Sadly this whole automated 50% discount upon your sentence has made many people despair at the whole system and often see headlines of some heinous crime and how they are out after a few years.

Of course this whole process was from what I can tell a accounting way to cope with prisoner numbers and with that, curtail building more jails.

But many sentences are a joke already in the public eye, without the addition of some automatic 50% discount.

Today, they are trying to end that 50% discount for certain types of criminals - terrorist types being one and in the UK, been two well news instances this year of criminals of that category being out early and committing violence that in the first instance, led to deaths.

I will also add that many career criminals know the legal and law system better than those that enforce it and with that, know how to game the system and how to play it. With that personally I have no faith in our police at all, though that is based upon experience of drug dealers moving into the flats below and the police being beyond useless, even with hard evidence and literally passing on details of those who informed upon them onto the criminals - be that having a word, passing on statements, lapping up their lies.

One case, they called round to raid the place and knocked on the door whilst the gang was there, they were made to wait 5 minutes whilst the gang flushed the heroin and crack cocaine down the toilet - took 3 flushes to get rid of it. Then they let them in, surprisingly they found nothing.

I literally had to take the law into my own hands in the end and built a contact microphone and wired up the walls and recorded their activity and literally blackmailed them to bugger off, I then got evidence against the corrupt police and had a wee chat and they are now no longer with the police.

I tried all the legal avenues and did all the right things and got utterly and totally shafted/ignored and frankly after 50 years, utterly lost faith in the police in the UK these days. Which still saddens me and brings a tear to my eyes. I won't even touch upon the health impact of noisy neibours and the associated antics of drug dealing but let's just say, PTSD comes from many forms.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#135
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An honest look at criminal justice is actually terrifying, even moreso because we don't even have a lead on alternatives.

Decriminalization of non violent drug use and a prison system focused on rehabilitation would be a start.

This is politically very difficult to do though. It will be seen as being soft on crime. A system focused on rehabilitation requires the public to not be as bloodthirsty as they are in the US. They need to given former felons a chance after they've carried out their punishment.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#136
post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

> Consequently the whole war on drugs is the perfect example of unintended side-effects.

Actually we know now that Nixon was explicitly targeting blacks and hippies, so not a great example—it seems to have worked pretty well.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#137
post #134
post #19

> In June 2016 [...] He was sentenced to five years in prison and sent to Wandsworth > He was released in December 2018. Theses 5 years were pretty fast

They literally give you a 50% discount on that prison time by default and the rest you are released on probation, miss appointment or any crime and straight in front of a judge and can easily end up serving the rest of the sentence. Sadly this whole automated 50% discount upon your sentence has made many people despair at the whole system and often see headlines of some heinous crime and how they are out after a few…

I'm curious: what do you think about the police in the UK going after people that post mean tweets on Twitter? Does it erode your faith in the police even further?

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#138
post #114
post #104

>> A December 2017 parliamentary report said up to 90 percent of prisoners have mental-health problems, and 12 percent turn to self-harm or attempt suicide multiple times. How could it be otherwise? Even ignoring the likely correlation between psychological problems and incarceration... Prison is a terrible environment by its nature and by design. Would we be surprised if concentration camp or gulag inhabitants had m…

> Prison is a terrible environment by its nature and by design. Usually, yes. But not necessarily. A prison could be more like a residential college or a boarding school. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bast%C3%B8y_Prison is a nice example, as well.

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#139
post #40

> Lewis: Tell me about “spice,” which seems to have become the British prisoner’s drug of choice. > Atkins: It was so ubiquitous. You could tell straightaway if someone was on it, they’d be zombified, with glazed eyes. They’d just be lying on their bed in a vegetative state. > I think [spice users] are used to smoking strong cannabis. And you can't really get away with that, because of the smell. But spice doesn’t sm…

Actually zoning laws are a pretty good idea.

I don't assume that you want to live near a tannery, or a brothel[1], no?

What you're referring to and which was an utterly racist policy is red lining[2]

[1] Legal in a lot of places in an appropriate zone.

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

Re: In Britain, even jails have a class system

#140
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally give you a 50% discount on that prison time by default and the rest you are released on probation, miss appointment or any crime and straight in front of a judge and can easily end up serving the rest of the sentence. Sadly this whole automated 50% discount upon your sentence has made many people despair at the whole system and often see headlines of some heinous crime and how they are out after a few…

I'm curious: what do you think about the police in the UK going after people that post mean tweets on Twitter? Does it erode your faith in the police even further?

Honestly, twitter and the social media outlets should be on top of that and whilst many think it's a waste of time for the police to be doing that, they need to remember that there are laws pertaining to communications that equally apply to later technology and should be applied.

So I'm just fine with them doing it and if anything, you could say they are a bit soft upon that front.

I'd add that until these twitter crimes see twitter pay a fine for each instance, they will carry on. Sure it won't be fair, but the unfairness has been one-sided too long and not just twitter - all social media platforms.

[EDIT ADD reference to pertaining communications act] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Act_2003

This superceeded the 1984 laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_1984

But they both cover communications that will cause offence.

What has changed perhaps is what people define as offencive. Now that is a matter of debate that will go on for ages, but I don't hold any disdain for the police in that respect, not do I have any experience upon that matter to draw upon.

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