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Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

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Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#291

Post by hnick »

LameRubberDucky wrote: post #273
mindcrime wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but people who claim "they've made the switch" just don't get it. Agreed. At 46, and having been a night-owl pretty much my entire life, I'm skeptical that you can just "switch" to another mode. Maybe you can, through very conscious and focused effort, manage to adapt to what appears to be a "morning person" lifestyle; but I suspect that people who do that are ultimately just faking it. That said, I've nev…

Anecdotally, at 51 and previously thought the same as you, I'm going to disagree. I'm closing in on two years of getting up at 5:00 am and it doesn't bother me anymore. I never thought it would be possible for me to adapt, but so far I have and I have no intention of changing. Time will tell.

People tend to wake earlier as they age, maybe that helped?

I've noticed it already in my 30s, I can no longer sleep in so easily and have to get up, even if I'm tired.

Unfortunately it is because older people tend to have poorer sleep quality in general (less time in deep sleep cycles) so that's a pretty big downside.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#292

Post by bradknowles »

logfromblammo wrote: post #242
Anthony-G wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve upvoted your comment but I would disagree with saying “ your clock is messed up ”. The OP’s clock is fine and acting as it it’s ‘programmed’ to. What’s messed up is the way society places a higher value on the circadian rhythms of early-risers over those of night owls. I recall hearing a theory that having individuals with differing circadian rhythms within the same social group provided an evolutionary advantag…

If we define larks as those whose circadian cycle leads the day-night cycle, and owls as those whose circadian cycle lags the day-night cycle, it's easy to hypothesize reasons for lark dominance in the civic schedule. Hypothetically, say local sunrise is 6 AM, and sunset 6 PM, a lark rises at 5 AM and retires at 9 PM, and an owl rises at 7 AM and retires at 11 PM. If the lark wishes to be immediately productive on wa…

So, what do you call the creature that rises at 9 AM and retires at 1 AM?

Or 11 AM and 3 AM?

Or sleeps straight through to 6 PM before they rise?

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#293

Post by dijit »

archarios wrote: post #157
Raphmedia wrote: post #84

If you were able to "no longer be a night owl" after changing diet, through exercise or by other changes in your behavior, you were in fact never an actual night owl but simply someone with bad sleeping habits. You read the same thing whenever there's a discussion on clinical depression. People push their anecdotes about mindset changes but fail to acknowledge they were never clinically depressed in the first place.

I have a very hard time believing that this stuff has to do with anything other than having the discipline to have a proper sleep schedule. It's possible to adjust your sleep schedule. People do it all the time when they change timezones. I didn't read the article, I'll go read it and update if I change my mind..

It really doesn't take long to adapt, but that first week is glorious, awake and energised!

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#294

Post by odysseus »

sokoloff wrote: post #241
mindcrime wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but people who claim "they've made the switch" just don't get it. Agreed. At 46, and having been a night-owl pretty much my entire life, I'm skeptical that you can just "switch" to another mode. Maybe you can, through very conscious and focused effort, manage to adapt to what appears to be a "morning person" lifestyle; but I suspect that people who do that are ultimately just faking it. That said, I've nev…

I was a hard-core night owl for years (all through college and my first 20 years of working). Then I had a kid, then another. They're 10 (+/- a bit) and I now reliably wake up sans-alarm at 5-5:30 every day, after years of doing that for [or because of] the kids. They even sleep later than that now, but I'm easily up by then. It does mean that I'm tired by 11 or midnight, but even when left entirely on my own schedul…

I have kids and I’m still a night owl. Thankfully, I have flexible hours at work so I can work late. When the kids hit school age, we will attempt to find a school that has a later start time.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#295

Post by hnick »

rootusrootus wrote: post #243
iso1631 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of international travel helps. If you're jetlagged from going to a different continent every week or so, when you're awake and asleep doesn't really factor into it.

I can't imagine ever getting used to jet lag. It is the most uncomfortable feeling that I am routinely exposed to. Feels like my body is failing.

Pretty much how it feels as a night owl forced to get up by 9am. A bit tired all day, want to go back to bed, then suddenly awake when it gets dark even though I've had no rest since rising.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#296

Post by hnick »

myhf wrote: post #152
follower wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend consulting a competent sleep specialist. > FWIW my brain "wakes up" at night This suggests to me that researching Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome might be helpful.

> a competent sleep specialist You mean there are sleep specialists who can do more than schedule a sleep study and then say that it was inconclusive because you couldn't fall asleep during the study?

The impression I got from mine is that all they care about are sleep interruptions (mostly sleep apnea) which does nothing for problems getting to sleep in the first place.

They said my sleep quality was fine, but a bit less than normal which is fair because it was at a lab not at home. But no, that's pretty much the amount I get anywhere. Suggested I lose 5-10kg and see how I go. Seemed like a boilerplate response.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#297

Post by hnick »

archarios wrote: post #157
Raphmedia wrote: post #84

If you were able to "no longer be a night owl" after changing diet, through exercise or by other changes in your behavior, you were in fact never an actual night owl but simply someone with bad sleeping habits. You read the same thing whenever there's a discussion on clinical depression. People push their anecdotes about mindset changes but fail to acknowledge they were never clinically depressed in the first place.

I have a very hard time believing that this stuff has to do with anything other than having the discipline to have a proper sleep schedule. It's possible to adjust your sleep schedule. People do it all the time when they change timezones. I didn't read the article, I'll go read it and update if I change my mind..

Counterpoint: when I fly back home westwards from the US, that first week is the best. I get up at a normal-person time. I have energy during daylight hours. I sleep at a decent time.

It doesn't last.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#298

Post by hnick »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #5
bilekas wrote: post #2

I am very much a night owl and I have a really hard time getting into a routine of getting up early in the morning, even if I do manage to get my hours of sleep. It took a long time to find a balance of forcing to sleep and forcing to get up. But now I have to be very concious, if I have a late weekend I am out of sync for the rest of the week. People say its a lazy thing, but its really not.

Used to have nasty insomnia, now I've sorta forced myself to sleep earlier cause I know if not I will not function at work. However, my wife's a night nurse so when she has days off and on weekends, it screws with my sleep schedule. I wish I could just function on less sleep honestly, but I can't anymore. One thing I read from a fellow insomniac though was that sometimes when you just can't sleep, laying down on your…

Yes there's value in just lying there with your eyes shut and one of the books I read supported that. Throw in some meditation if you're into that too.

The common refrain is to avoid it because you'll associate the bed as a place of not-sleeping, but that ship has sailed for most of us anyway. The same book said "rituals" (such as getting up and reading a book instead) can be harmful as the habits become normalised and become just one more required step to sleep, instead of an occasional help.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#299

Post by hnick »

Since there are a lot of people with various experiences here, I thought I'd ask.

My problems falling asleep are not due to being tired so melatonin and various things I've tried (like drowsy allergy pills) don't work. My mind is too active, and it prevents sleep. Even to the point where the 'sleep' part proceeds, my mind is racing, and I start to dream (hallucinate) while half awake. Then I will see a spider or something that is not there and snap wide awake, full of adrenaline. Repeat until about 2 hours have passed and then maybe I can sleep.

So rather than pills or treatments to induce sleepiness, is there something that reduces mind chatter? I know some people talk about meditation which is something I'd like to look into. My mother also has sleep problems and has been diagnosed with ADD in her 60s (along with my sister in her 30s). So that's another potential avenue. I use a white noise machine which is required as a baseline (tiny noises distract and awake me out of all proportion), rather than a help.

Re: Early riser or night owl? New study may help to explain the difference

#300

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

adrianmonk wrote: post #272
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #154

> Some people are early risers, wide awake at the crack of dawn. Others are night owls who can’t seem to get to bed until well after midnight and prefer to sleep in I am neither one of those? I hate waking up early and I dislike going to bed late. My preferred hours awake are 8:00AM-10PM; I found this to give me the most optimal amount of physical and mental energy throughout the day. Not sure why 10 hours of sleep w…

There might just be some people who need 10 hours, but I would still look at sleep quality issues. The CPAP thing sounds like a good step, but there could be other causes. Do you wake up feeling well-rested? I know that when I used to always sleep 10 hours/night, I still wanted more sleep when I got up. Somehow I managed to change that, though, and now I wake up after 6-6.5 hours. And I feel more well-rested than I d…

> Do you wake up feeling well-rested?

Only after about 10 hours yes. I get by with 8 hours, but feel exhausted by around 8PM. Anything less than 8 hours makes me feel physically ill, irritable, and nauseous for most of the day. More than 10 hours makes me very sleepy. I told my sleep doctor about this, but she just shrugged and suggested some people need more sleep than others.

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