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Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

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Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#171
post #158
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t really work as on if the common scams is to take a real box, apparently sealed, but with a brick or whatever in it with the right weight

They would take pictures of items before packing.

SEALED

For many items opening the packing reduces value

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#172

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

At least for camera equipment, this does exist. You can take your camera to B&H's used department, and they will buy it from you. You can also go to B&H's used department and buy a used camera from them.

The advantage of this over Amazon is that as a seller, you know B&H isn't going to screw you over in any way, and if they do, you know where to serve your lawsuit. A trusted business with a physical location is the counterparty in your transaction, which makes it pretty low risk. As a buyer, you know B&H is trustworthy and you can come back to the store and have a problem resolved.

Amazon offers nothing in a typical Amazon.com transaction beyond matching buyer and seller. They can't trust the buyer, and they can't trust the seller. So they can't really help with the transaction in any way, they are just there to take a cut for basically nothing. B&H takes a larger cut, but they actually do something.

Of course, people like money, so Amazon is rolling in it while most people don't even know that they can sell their camera to B&H. (I've bought used stuff from them because I don't trust random eBay listings, but never sold anything because the amount of money they offer wasn't worth it to me.)

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a case where the police would be helpful, at least in the US. The police in the US generally will defer financial disputes to the courts.

They also, in my experience, defer dealing with theft to insurance companies.

Yep. One time I tracked down a stolen iPhone on Craigslist. The police were impressed I had the serial number, the original box, the receipt, and the photo showed the email address the iPhone was locked to.

They gave the guy a call, he answered with "no hablo inglés" so they hung up and told me, "Sorry, nothing we can do."

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta takeaway, probably: A popular PetaPixel post that gets coverage on additional social platforms is your only form of recourse against Amazon.

I told Amazon was going to post a video to social of the third bad delivery at my apartment. It was so comical because even Amazon had posted signs on our property telling the delivery drivers what not to do. Yet the drivers did exactly that right in front of the sign. The first two email complaints went unresponded to. After threatening to put on tiktok, I got a phone call from the regional director in charge of the…

I don't think that was necessarily due to your threat. I've noticed that often the first one or two or even three messages about an issue that I send to Amazon seem to be answered by bots (or people following a poor script) and they miss the point of my message completely, each time, no matter how clear and exact I am.* It's only after multiple messages that a real (free-thinking) human seems to actually read it and respond appropriately.

* I swear it seems like there's a simple algorithm that scans the message for trigger words and then chooses a response based solely on those trigger words. I've received responses to issues completely unrelated to my entire message, except for the fact that they're about something I briefly mentioned in an aside or something like that. It's horribly horribly frustrating, even when I know it's going to happen.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#175
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The place the suitor lives is a perfectly fine venue... make the fraudster travel.

If they fail to show to court and/or lose, your state doesn't have much recourse or ability to rectify the situation, right?

I'm not any kind of lawyer but my guess is you could get a default judgement and then employ some sort of bounty hunter to attempt to collect on them.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#176
post #35

There is no perfect system that protects buyers and sellers. Change the rules and buyers will be complaining. The reason it is skewed towards buyers is: 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living). 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more work as the…

> The general view is sellers need to take fraud into their overall operating expense budget, just like department stored do with shoplifting. How’s that work when selling a single item?

Don't sell single items online that you can't take a loss on is the basic answer. For the OP I wonder if there is a tax deduction that they can take.. maybe you have to be a company though.

My favorite Amazon "scam" examples are products ordered from Amazon that drop ship from Walmart. I call it a scam but some people would say it's a service...

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#177
post #131
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EBay in 2017 was a giant shitshow (and probably still is, but I don't use it anymore). Both their security and support are complete trash, even if you happen to be lucky (like me) and they reply quickly. I woke up one morning to get an email notification thanking me for purchasing a back bumper, a wing, and a few other parts for a 2012 Hyundai Genesis, which I obviously don't have and neither have I made that purchas…

How were they able to read eBay's SMSs sent to your phone number? A number of online services I use send SMSs as a form of 2FA. Apparently this is not entirely safe.

Sim-cloning is a very popular technique for this, but it is far from being the only commonly used technique to get around SMS-based 2FA.

2FA through SMS isn't safe, and while it is better than no 2FA at all, it is just barely better than none. If you are curious to find more info, there is a lot of writing that has been done on this topic. I am very impartial to Brian's writing on security topics, and he has at least one post regarding SMS-based 2FA [0].

0. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/08/reddit-breach-highlights...

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly about chargeback, I've noticed the same. I tried to file a chargeback with my bank in France and got denied despite it being a valid claim and me providing all the documentation for it. But, when I used my US credit card to file a chargeback it went through fine and there was no issue. I wonder if some countries are more lax with charge backs?

Yes, it seems to me that USA (and in my case Australia) have extremely pro-customer payment protection. Europe, especially outside of the EEA, is very pro-bank and anti-customer in the specific niche of card payments. The explanation I get is that if a card payment was verified by the customer with 3D Secure, it is considered valid and cannot be challenged. Which is true, the customer did enter their personal passwor…

My guess would be that under EU protection you can’t deny having willingly provided the money, and ask the bank to take it back just because you don’t feel it was worth it anymore.

The claim would go through the police or a formal fraud complaint, and you’d be basically pursuing the fraudster in small claims.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#179
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they fail to show to court and/or lose, your state doesn't have much recourse or ability to rectify the situation, right?

I'm not any kind of lawyer but my guess is you could get a default judgement and then employ some sort of bounty hunter to attempt to collect on them.

As a lawyer, default judgment for sure, but no one is sending out bounty hunters for small claims court. In fact, the courts tend to not get involved at all. You, the plaintiff, would be given the means to prove the judgment has been entered, but then it's kind of up to you to have it enforced. Luckily, you can generally count on the assistance of a Sheriff's office, but often the approach is some sort of wage garnishment (with a number of restrictions), bank levy (also with a number of restrictions), or real estate liens.

Collecting on these sort of judgments can be difficult, time consuming, and frustrating.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#180
Paypal is not a good solution for secondary markets. I wish someone would start a payment company specifically focused on P2P where you can have escrows and third-party reviews for expensive items. Instead of sending your item directly to a buyer, you send it to a third-party who then signs off on it. I am sure people will gladly pay 5% fee to get that peace of mind.
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