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Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

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Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#131

Post by sireat »

filoleg wrote: post #71
ebaySucks123 wrote: post #28

I had the same exact experience the last time I sold on ebay, in 2017. I sold an $800 item. One day before the claim window closed, the buyer filed a claim saying it had never arrived and claiming they emailed me several times and I never responded. I submitted proof of delivery from UPS and pointed out the simple fact that I had received no messages from the buyer through ebay messaging. Ebay gave them a full refund…

EBay in 2017 was a giant shitshow (and probably still is, but I don't use it anymore). Both their security and support are complete trash, even if you happen to be lucky (like me) and they reply quickly. I woke up one morning to get an email notification thanking me for purchasing a back bumper, a wing, and a few other parts for a 2012 Hyundai Genesis, which I obviously don't have and neither have I made that purchas…

How were they able to read eBay's SMSs sent to your phone number?

A number of online services I use send SMSs as a form of 2FA. Apparently this is not entirely safe.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#132

Post by gnopgnip »

canada_dry wrote: post #56

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

Fedex weighs packages at multiple stages and this is accessible for the shipper. I suspect USPS and UPS weigh packages at least once and this could be requested if there is a dispute. These don't do a lot to prevent fraud, and it would be difficult to provide authentication without specialized training. There are services that provide authentication with more expertise. StockX does it for new sneakers. The real real and a few others do it for luxury goods. Even with authentication by experts it is not 100% certain that you are getting authentic goods and there will be some dispute process. In practice few buyers would use a platform that completely blocks returns.

You could sell your camera to a company like KEH, and they take on nearly all of the seller side risk when dealing with consumers.

The real problem here is that Amazon is not following their own policies, and refunded the buyer when the buyer did not provide proof of delivery for the returned item, not anything else about the system in general. The recourse for that is small claims(or arbitration, but small claims is probably better for you, and it is allowed as an exception to the required arbitration)

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#133

Post by bathtub365 »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #106
canada_dry wrote: post #56

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

Sounds reasonable and it could be fairly automated too. You can already take amazon returns to UPS stores, Whole Foods or Kohls and they will box it for you. All they need is a camera system to video the boxing and then associate the shipping label/tracking number with that video. The boxing video could be made available on the courier's site for any interested party to see (when enabled by the shipper). Sure, it may…

Now employees of these stores have to consent to being recorded on video and their videos shared with strangers?

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#134

Post by birdyrooster »

qwertox wrote: post #76
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, my first thought is: contacting a buyer outside of Amazon is against Amazon's TOS. But if the author isn't interested in using Amazon after this incident, Amazon's TOS don't matter much. I'd be interested to hear from someone with a bit more legal knowledge how this might go. It's a good thought for sure.

Why would he contact the buyer outside of Amazon? He would go to the police to point out his issue with the buyer, there's absolutely no need to contact him outside of Amazon. I'd rather think that Amazon would be forthcoming in assisting any demands an investigation would make, like provide all the information regarding the seller and buyer on this issue to the police. Sure, it would be nice if Amazon would withhold…

Got a good laugh out of "He would go to the police to" and "provide all the information regarding the seller and buyer on this issue to the police"

Thanks for that.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#135

Post by justsid »

gonehome wrote: post #36
lucasmullens wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does emailing the CEO really work? If I contact regular Amazon support, I end up talking to a bot presumably since their employee time is so valuable. But I can just hit up Jeff like it's no big deal? Honestly asking, there might be some special team to go through the jeff@amazon.com emails.

There's a history where people email Bezos and he'll forward that email along to someone responsible for that thing with a single '?'. [0] https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/5-years-later-jeff-bezos-...

TIL: My boss works the exact same way as Jeff Bezos.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#136

Post by jasd »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #2

Wrong takeaway. If you're going to sell on Amazon, use FBA. A-z claims cannot be filed on FBA orders. If this is in fact your last sale on Amazon, and you no longer intend to do business with them, email Jeff@Amazon.com as a last resort. Keep in mind, that email should not be used lightly. Be succinct and stoic. Provide proof that you have done everything else to resolve the matter.

It is unlikely that your email catches his(his team's) attention. However, if it does, rest assured that he will shake things up to fix the root cause of the issue and likely get the team to refund your money as well.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#137

Post by pkaye »

kube-system wrote: post #61
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when you use Amazon you agree to binding arbitration...

Why not take the buyer to small claims? Or at least, have a lawyer draft them a nice letter.

So travel to the jurisdiction of the buyer and file a small claims? How much time and money are you willing to spend?

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#138

Post by 0x00000000 »

amatecha wrote: post #114
ebaySucks123 wrote: post #28

I had the same exact experience the last time I sold on ebay, in 2017. I sold an $800 item. One day before the claim window closed, the buyer filed a claim saying it had never arrived and claiming they emailed me several times and I never responded. I submitted proof of delivery from UPS and pointed out the simple fact that I had received no messages from the buyer through ebay messaging. Ebay gave them a full refund…

Yeah, I've heard stuff like this for years and years and long ago decided I will never sell anything online. Craigslist in-person only.

Many categories on Craigslist are also full of bots, spam, and scams.

Honestly Facebook having such aggressive “fake profile” enforcement makes FB marketplace one of the better ways to buy and sell online

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#139

Post by lstamour »

_underfl0w_ wrote: post #125
sevenf0ur wrote: post #59

> If you’re going to sell on Amazon or elsewhere, take an actual video of you packing the camera. You need all the defense you can get against items mysteriously disappearing. Isn't this evidence just as bad as the buyer's account that he didn't receive any accessories? One could just unpack the box right after filming.

I think this every time someone suggests filming part of the transaction. Nowhere does video of an action imply that it was not immediately undone right after filming.

But the same might be true if you filmed the entire transaction. The only way you’d have proof is if you hand deliver it the entire way and as you validate with the buyer that everything works at that point and the transaction is over. Even then, the third-party holding the funds in escrow has to be satisfied or you could have a buyer disagree and say that was a different transaction than the one it applied to, a different camera...

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#140

Post by kube-system »

mgiampapa wrote: post #112
canada_dry wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...someone at FedEx doesn't really know how to... Yes, this is true. I think a basic service offering might just record the weight and photo of each item being packaged up.

Even a low tech photo record weeds out a lot of fraud. Oh you aren't returning a thing that resembles the photo that was shipped to you? This won't eliminate fraud, but it will move the bar in a non trivial way. Combine this with a photo ID check at the store for the person doing the shipping and your halfway there.

Maybe for return fraud that’s an issue. But for buyers, the issue is usually more subtle problems with quality. (DOA, poor quality, counterfeit)

The question is, can a platform protect sellers in this way and still afford to compete with other services? Most buyers like buying from Amazon/eBay where they always get their money back. It’ll be a tough sell to get them to use a platform with higher barriers to making a return and higher overhead costs.

I think that you need to address the concerns that buyers have in order to be successful in attracting buyers.

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