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Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

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Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#101

Post by CamelCaseName »

tempestn wrote: post #44
crmrc114 wrote: post #12

Did you sell it as used? If you opened the package and touched the product it can no longer be sold as new. I have called out sellers on this crap before and gotten my money back. When I order new I expect a factory sealed box. (Also illegal in the US https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/20.1 ) So assuming you sold this as used, that sucks I feel for you. However if your one of those scumbags who sells used things…

Does Amazon not have a "New, open box" option?

Almost. The correct condition would be "Used - Like New" [0]

The reason why this matters is because "New" items are grouped in a separate tab/link on the product detail page.

Frankly speaking, selling anything other than sealed products in perfect conditions as "New" opens you up to misery.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#102

Post by tus88 »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #81
tus88 wrote: post #35

There is no perfect system that protects buyers and sellers. Change the rules and buyers will be complaining. The reason it is skewed towards buyers is: 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living). 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more work as the…

> 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living). Buyers also generally have to buy somewhere, especially for necessities. The difference is that finding a place to buy is easier than finding a place to sell. > 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more w…

> Buyers also generally have to buy somewhere, especially for necessities.

Much of what gets sold online is discretionary purchases, not necessities. Like cameras. And necessities are cheap and readily available down the road - why wait for toothpaste to ship online when you can buy a tube on your way home from work?

> You don't have to just resell to profit. Just buy stuff you want anyways then complain.

Well you really do, if your goal is to acquire currency. Having a garage full of stolen items is a liability, not profit.

> The current system works because there are many buyers and few sellers.

It works because buyers are willing (and able) to spend money. It's the only ingredient necessary for a market. Demand will always create supply one way or another.

> Most people are honest.

There is little evidence of this outside of Japan. Drop $50 in a carpark and see how many people return it to the store.

> Skewing in favor of the buyer makes it so the few sellers aren't overrun by fraudsters.

I am not sure what this means. Skewing in favor of buyers creates conditions where there are buyers in the first place, allowing for the market to exist. I suspect the reason sellers aren't swamped by fraudsters is as I said in a different comment - profiting from fraud as a buyer is difficult, dangerous, and requires a lot of effort and work. Most buyers just want their items. ALL sellers want to make money, and a fair percentage are happy to ship sub-quality garbage for over-inflated prices (a kind of fraud in itself?).

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#104

Post by Paul-ish »

freepor wrote: post #48
tus88 wrote: post #35

There is no perfect system that protects buyers and sellers. Change the rules and buyers will be complaining. The reason it is skewed towards buyers is: 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living). 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more work as the…

A seller can absorb fraud when they’re doing hundreds or thousands of transactions. If each person is doing one transaction the people hit will have life altering consequences for some items.

I wonder if seller insurance is viable. Pay $50 for an item, company does a background check on the seller and maybe does escrow.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#105

Post by tzs »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #9
jfim wrote: post #4

Wouldn't that be a good small claims court case? There's good documentation that the item has been shipped, and the seller is out of both the money and the camera.

But when you use Amazon you agree to binding arbitration...

There's been at least some effort in Congress to reign in the overuse of binding arbitration [1]. It only covers employment, consumer, antitrust, or civil rights disputes, so probably would not help in a dispute between an Amazon seller and Amazon. Still, it at least shows some in government realize forced arbitration agreements are getting out of hand.

That passed the House, but almost certainly will die in the Senate considering that in the House it only had 2 Republicans vote for it and 183 against it (14 not voting). Democrats were 223 for, 2 against, 9 not voting.

[1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1423

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#106

Post by bonestamp2 »

canada_dry wrote: post #56

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

Sounds reasonable and it could be fairly automated too. You can already take amazon returns to UPS stores, Whole Foods or Kohls and they will box it for you. All they need is a camera system to video the boxing and then associate the shipping label/tracking number with that video.

The boxing video could be made available on the courier's site for any interested party to see (when enabled by the shipper). Sure, it may not capture the quality of an item, but that's a fairly small detail that can be resolved with a return/partial refund and it would at least put an end to the rampant fraud that goes on.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#107

Post by pdxbigman »

ebaySucks123 wrote: post #28

I had the same exact experience the last time I sold on ebay, in 2017. I sold an $800 item. One day before the claim window closed, the buyer filed a claim saying it had never arrived and claiming they emailed me several times and I never responded. I submitted proof of delivery from UPS and pointed out the simple fact that I had received no messages from the buyer through ebay messaging. Ebay gave them a full refund…

Stories like this are why I've never bought or sold anything on Ebay. They just seem like a genuinely shitty experience and I'd rather shell out extra cash to buy new or meet someone off craigslist as a bank.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#108

Post by canada_dry »

kube-system wrote: post #85
canada_dry wrote: post #56

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

> Too over simplified?? Probably. These shipping services don't really have any expertise to accurately judge the quality of many of the items they ship. They just move boxes around. Some rando at FexEx Office doesn't really know how to determine that your DSLR has the advertised shutter count, nor do they know how to verify the SMART status of those hard drives you shipped, nor would they be able to validate the aut…

> ...someone at FedEx doesn't really know how to...

Yes, this is true. I think a basic service offering might just record the weight and photo of each item being packaged up.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#109

Post by CamelCaseName »

giarc wrote: post #68
canada_dry wrote: post #56

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

At a Purolator (Canadian retailer) mailing centre near me, they have this system that weighs the box but also measures the dimensions. The whole rig is ceiling mounted (while the scale is on a counter). I suspect like this could also incorporate a camera that takes a photo of the inside contents.

Amazon has these as well, they are called cubiscans.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#110

Post by durpleDrank »

Amazon FBA is a joke. I tried it for a year. Experienced a couple of instances like OP. Customer service at Amazon is an ineffective joke when it comes to these matters as well. Fees are too high etc. Believe the hype of YouTube "entrepreneurs" at your own peril.
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