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An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

popularmechanics.com

71–80 of 161 posts

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#71
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just pass orders down through the ranks to report all sightings, however odd they may seem? "Hey, we think the Chinese or Russians may have something new. It's imperative that all unidentifiable flying craft are reported." My personal theory is that the US knows exactly what these objects are because they built them. I don't believe the US military would've ever commented if they weren'…

Yeah, so I am curious here, why do you believe anything humans are capable of building can do what these objects are reported as doing? I ask this in all seriousness because I don't think you, me, or anyone else alive can answer how they do basically any of the stuff reported. This makes it hard for me to believe that not only has someone actually answered all of those questions, but actually mastered the science and…

>why do you believe anything humans are capable of building can do what these objects are reported as doing?

I believe they exist because of the videos and statements. I believe they're man made for the reason I stated above.

>What's your guess on how the boys filled that gap?

That's a lot harder to answer. The short version is, I have no clue. We could speculate forever. We do know that stealth technology existed for years before the public was informed, as one example of many. And we know that agencies like DARPA and programs like Skunk Works exist and are extremely well funded specifically to develop new technologies for military use. I submit that we do not know about every technology these sorts of entities have created. How far those technologies go? Man, I'd really love to know! I'm hopeful these videos are a glimpse of that.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#72
I'm disappointed by this article. There is an amazing story here, and the author missed it: a collection of UFO believers and pseudoscientific quacks manage to get $26 million in funding from the US government. They produce mostly nonsense, yet somehow the project runs for years. The author collected all the pieces to tell the story, but wrote yet another "well, I'll let you decide, but it seems there's something to it ;)" article.

I mean come on, look at the people involved! Look at the papers they've written and the views they've espoused! There's all sorts of nonsense: remote viewing, telekinesis, harnessing zero-point energy, anti-gravity. The guy who received most of the funds believes Skinwalker Ranch is some sort of nexus for paranormal activity!

This could have been a great story, but the author was just too damn credulous.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#73
> Mention of Skinwalker Ranch in Utah as a “possible laboratory for studying other intelligences and possible interdimensional phenomena.”

Using the word "interdimensional", rather than something more precise, smells like bullshit. Specifically, it sounds more like pop scifi than actual science. A "dimension" is an axis, not a universe, and I expect someone writing a serious document for the government about anything, much less ETI, to use the word correctly.Then again, I've been disappointed before. Anyway, I'm holding open the possibility that the whole BAASS thing is the biggest, most embarrassing contracting boondoggle of all time.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#74
post #72

I'm disappointed by this article. There is an amazing story here, and the author missed it: a collection of UFO believers and pseudoscientific quacks manage to get $26 million in funding from the US government. They produce mostly nonsense, yet somehow the project runs for years. The author collected all the pieces to tell the story, but wrote yet another "well, I'll let you decide, but it seems there's something to…

Yeah, one possible explanation for a lot of this is that the US military has been scammed by a bunch of quacks and they lack personnel with sufficient scientific competence to evaluate what they are being sold.

I don't see how it could explain the 2004 Nimitz incident though.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#75
post #26

What's the deal with Skinwalker ranch? Why are they interested in it? Everything is so vague and x-filesy when people mention the ranch. Very woo woo without any actual details about what people have encountered there. What is the specific link between the ranch and UFOs?

In my mind, Skinwalker Ranch is one of the most clear events that should raise questions about Bigelow's credibility. NIDSci very prominently purchased the ranch and initiated a research project there which they even invited some reporters to observe. Absolutely nothing came out of it besides a couple of books which provided essentially nothing other than recapping myths related to the site which are, themselves, of dubious origin (e.g. may have been fabricated much later than their supposed origin). See, e.g., Kelleher and Knapp's book.

Note that both Kelleher and Knapp are referenced by TFA - Bigelow is perhaps the central body orbited by a dozen or so paranormal enthusiasts repeatedly involved in various schemes. Take down a list of the researchers associated with AATIP/BAASS and you will see their names come up over and over for the last twenty years of paranormal phenomena - frequently associated with high-profile research projects that quietly die with no results.

After years of work at Skinwalker, NIDSci quietly closed up shop with nothing to show for the effort and, espeically in later years, very little apparent activity besides hiring a guard to keep everyone else out of the site.

So obviously this is an opinionated answer, but I would say that there is nothing about Skinwalker Ranch besides some strange stories coming from the Gormans (previous owners of the ranch) and then a tremendous amount of confirmation bias and intrigue, most of which was only even possible because NIDSci was so incredibly shady and non-transparent about their work there despite inviting people to write books.

To answer your question more directly, there is not necessarily any connection between Skinwalker Ranch and UFOs except to the extent that the greater community (and to some extent Bigelow and his friends) have drawn tenuous connections between Skinwalker Ranch and essentially every other paranormal phenomena ever proposed. For example, on of the phenomena said to surround Skinwalker Ranch is a rumbling or deep sound from the earth, which some suggest is evidence of ongoing construction work on a deep underground military base (DUMB). DUMBs are generally associated with interaction with alien races or work on extraterrestrial technology, mostly due to Bob Lazar.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#76
post #32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just pass orders down through the ranks to report all sightings, however odd they may seem? "Hey, we think the Chinese or Russians may have something new. It's imperative that all unidentifiable flying craft are reported." My personal theory is that the US knows exactly what these objects are because they built them. I don't believe the US military would've ever commented if they weren'…

You assume that if these are not ours, then broadcasting them shows a weakness. That seems like a big assumption. There are a variety of scenarios where the military may not see these as a threat, yet didn’t create them.

According to the Navy pilot who went on the Rogan podcast, the object he encountered was actively jamming his radar and targeting systems, which he also said is considered an act of war. I'm not sure how any military could consider a craft that can fly circles around ours while jamming our targeting systems to be benign. Unless it's ours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnIG-i2WCfg

https://podscribe.app/feeds/http-joeroganexpjoeroganlibsynpr...

"the way the system actually works is when you see something on the radar and you designate it as your primary target all the other sensors will look at that point so it's everything is kind of sink together so he picks up a hit on his radar and he goes to lock it up because I watched all the tapes he goes to lock it up and immediately the radar can tell it gets signals back that it's being jammed

► 00:20:44

so in technically jamming is an act of War it starts jamming the radar goes into a jam extrapolate a bunch of stuff happens on the scope"

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#77
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just pass orders down through the ranks to report all sightings, however odd they may seem? "Hey, we think the Chinese or Russians may have something new. It's imperative that all unidentifiable flying craft are reported." My personal theory is that the US knows exactly what these objects are because they built them. I don't believe the US military would've ever commented if they weren'…

Yes and no. Is the US military broadcasting strength? Probably. That would be consistent with its history. However. That doesn't mean they know. It only means they are in the best position to make the claim. No one does misinformation as good as the NSA, CIA, etc. does. The two things are independent.

>It only means they are in the best position to make the claim.

That's a good point I hadn't considered.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#78

Evidently "Popular Mechanics is ripping open the U.S. government’s massive UFO problem" but not bothering to proofread. Yes, it seems a bit immature and pedantic to bother over mechanical errors in the text. But such clear mistakes in the published text (e.g. "intuitive" when they meant "initiative") does not speak well to their credibility as a newsgathering organization. Unfortunately it seems like there has been a…

Solid skeptical rebuttal...

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#79

Evidently "Popular Mechanics is ripping open the U.S. government’s massive UFO problem" but not bothering to proofread. Yes, it seems a bit immature and pedantic to bother over mechanical errors in the text. But such clear mistakes in the published text (e.g. "intuitive" when they meant "initiative") does not speak well to their credibility as a newsgathering organization. Unfortunately it seems like there has been a…

Solid skeptical rebuttal...

I intend this less as a criticism of the material and more as a criticism of Popular Mechanics. I do have plenty of criticism of the material but it's a little more substantial than an apparent lack of copy editing.

The introduction of the article really plays up its significance and this is clearly intended to be a big feature piece for PopMech. But it introduces very little new material to people who follow this issue and, as I was mentioning, doesn't even seem to have been carefully prepared for publication.

Re: An investigation of the Pentagon's UFO program

#80
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory that this is US-controlled drone tech does not jive with the claims made with regards to aerodynamic performance by David Fravor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco2s3-0zsQ Basically, skeptics need to embrace the idea that such an off-the-cuff, obvious theory like "it's drone tech" or "it's Chinese or Russian tech" like the one you mention is well outside the realm of things that should be taken seriously…

> Frankly, a much less reaching theory at this point is that we simply don't know what these things are, have completely failed to determine it, and can't safely conjecture anymore they are human created or purely natural phenomena. This is a perfectly suitable place to be given our place in the universe and our current level of understanding, and doesn't require any further leaps to explaining their origin beyond "w…

What a time to be alive.

I never thought I'd see it, but it's happened.

The tipping point has been reached where conspiracy theories denying this stuff have become crazier than the reports of it.

I think a new and very rich vein of crazy is about to make itself available to the masses for their entertainment, that is the mental gymnastics some people will tie themselves into to deny the existence of something which they find impossible to face.

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