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The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

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Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#281

Post by sneak »

jariel wrote: post #215
K0SM0S wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended a top 5 business school in France at the turn of the century. We had partnerships with similar schools in NYC, Tokyo, Sydney, you name it. It was taught in first year of international business classes that outsourcing abroad was functionally equivalent to a transfer of technology — so you always had to factor in the time it took for your magic low-cost solution to fade out and become your competitor, essen…

This is a misleading narrative in the context of the charges against Huawei. To somehow equate the direct theft of IP and innovation as just 'shared culture and knowledge' completely avoids the material criminality at hand. Huawei is charged with literally incentivizing their employees to steal knowledge and IP, and of directly copying designs, on a systematic and widespread scale. These activities are instituted far…

The concept of IP is a relatively recent invention, created by legislatures to prop up specific industries hurt by copying of data, and, as is being demonstrated, not everyone agrees that it should be treated the same as existing systems of physical property.

You wouldn’t download a car. But I would. I don’t think it’s possible to steal information.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#282

Post by addicted »

Fragoel2 wrote: post #256
totalZero wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of makes you wonder why Boeing would build a finishing plant in Zhoushan and Apple would put so much of its iPhone production in Zhengzhou and Shenzhen.

Because its cheap, if you only look at the immediate profit without considering the long term implications

The long term implications have been that American companies are richer than ever before.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#283

Post by bloodm »

jorblumesea wrote: post #148
throwawei wrote: post #87

Using a throwaway to share our $0.02 relating to this. AMA I guess. We're a US-based startup that does about $100-200k in business annually with Futurewei (Huawei's R&D subsidiary). I've never dealt with Huawei proper. I can say they're genuinely investing in R&D, and trying to build a product unlike anything being offered right now. We're working with tech that's floating around the academic conferences, but no one…

But, don't you see the connection between their risk high investments and the IP they've stolen from US companies? If anything, Huawei made its name of stealing from Nortel, Cisco, etc. Not to mention, questionable ties to the CCP. If they have R&D money to burn, it's because they've saved billions on R&D because they stole it. To see them as "good actor" because of a token $200k, while stealing literally tens of bil…

Do you know where "Made in Germany" comes from?

It was supposed to mark inferior products, technology that was stolen and copied from Germany.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#284

Post by addicted »

nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

These US companies are making more money than ever before.

So I’m not sure what they have to complain about.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#285

Post by sneak »

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #128

> "Huawei is alleged to have stolen source code for Company 1’s routers, which it then used in its own products." I've never really understood how IP theft works. I've been a software engineer for a long time and I know that Reading and making sense of an existing million line code base is a hella of a lot harder than just writing new code from scratch. Why on earth would anyone want to steal source code from a compe…

I encourage you to read this.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#286

Post by sand_castles »

totalZero wrote: post #251
sand_castles wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

relax bro, we all stand in other's shoulders. also, you in what army ? are you going to invade Asia ?

Hypothetically speaking....the no-armies-involved solution would be to ban their products, take possession of their US assets, encourage allies to boycott their products, sue them in foreign courts, and repatriate manufacturing of US-based companies' devices to make the Huawei spying campaign far more difficult.

> ban their products

which ? the cheap phone everybody uses while taking a dump ?

> take possession of their US assets.

which ? UST bonds ? in the situation you describe, the Chinese supply chain are far more valuable.

> encourage allies to boycott their products

nobody is stupid enough to allow their teenagers to fight a land war in Asia.

> sue them in foreign courts.

Sue them where ? Hague ? how does it stop them selling phones to africans / other asians exactly ?

> repatriate manufacturing of US-based companies' devices

Do you have a 300 million + healthy well educated labour force working for sub 15 dollars an hour ?

Good Luck Bro !

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#287

Post by Kbelicius »

jvanderbot wrote: post #184
JPKab wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the fact that the PEOPLE of China have been able to benefit economically from this. However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation. This is a recipe for tyranny, and the elites of the CCP have oppressed the good citizens of China by developing tech for suppression of speech, identification and targeting…

Do you believe that the Chinese people would not have benefitted, had the alleged activities not occurred? If so, then they are a sort of state-level robin-hood. If not, then the theft was greed and treachery. I have no reason to believe that this was necessary for progress.

Had the alleged activities not occurred? Without a doubt the Chines people wound not have benefited as much.

> I have no reason to believe that this was necessary for progress.

What are the reason that you believe that this is not necessary for progress?

There doesn't exist a single example of technologically advanced country that did not jump start its technological development by using protectionist policies and/or knowledge transfer. Be that knowledge transfer legal or illegal.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#288

Post by secfirstmd »

Fragoel2 wrote: post #256
totalZero wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of makes you wonder why Boeing would build a finishing plant in Zhoushan and Apple would put so much of its iPhone production in Zhengzhou and Shenzhen.

Because its cheap, if you only look at the immediate profit without considering the long term implications

Aren't Tesla also building in China?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#290

Post by whoevercares »

moulei wrote: post #268
echevil wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other 91% mostly don't have enough interest to become CCP member. It's not that difficult if they want to join. Moreover, the highest organ of the state is National People's Congress ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress ), with elected representatives coming from all kinds of professions, including CCP and non-CCP members. The idea is exactly to give everyone representation in government.

Nah it's very difficult for normal people to join CCP. Firstly you had to be "A Pioneer" worker/soldier etc..This usually means that you need someone' apply from CCP. As a student, you have had to be a member of the Communist Youth League of China and do a lot of pieces of shit to get your teacher‘s apply. Then you will be an "Activist" allow you to send the join offer. This is difficult enough but usually only one o…

Almost only those who dropped out of school are NOT member of the Youth League (rare cases are you went abroad for middle school or completely freak). Joining CCP at high school is an achievement and you might get bonus or a medal even, but at college/work it’s quite easy
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