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The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

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Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#251

Post by totalZero »

sand_castles wrote: post #162
otterley wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument goes that Huawei would not be able to "create better equipment" had they been unable to wrongfully copy others' work in the first place. If the allegations are true, Huawei enjoys a position that resulted from unlawful and immoral behavior, and their ill-gotten gains should be confiscated from them. Who knows what would have happened had Huawei done all their own R&D in the first place. Maybe they'd be i…

relax bro, we all stand in other's shoulders. also, you in what army ? are you going to invade Asia ?

Hypothetically speaking....the no-armies-involved solution would be to ban their products, take possession of their US assets, encourage allies to boycott their products, sue them in foreign courts, and repatriate manufacturing of US-based companies' devices to make the Huawei spying campaign far more difficult.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#252

Post by totalZero »

resters wrote: post #139

Ironically, this is an attempt by the Trump administration to steal IP from China. US firms are behind in 5G because they have sat on the sidelines while Huawei engineered the chipsets. It's tremendously ironic that these charges will likely allow US firms to steal money and/or IP from Huawei through what is for all intents and purposes the Trump administration's fiat. Worse yet, as has been the pattern with the Trum…

Hold up, hold up. Did you just describe Meng Wanzhou, the CFO of Huawei, as "a journalist"?

If you're gonna peddle a biased narrative, put some effort into making it appear reasonable.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#253

Post by chalst »

nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

It's also surprising to see this classed as racketeering. Has IP piracy ever been prosecuted under RICO laws before?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#254

Post by carlmr »

lostmsu wrote: post #233
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #128

> "Huawei is alleged to have stolen source code for Company 1’s routers, which it then used in its own products." I've never really understood how IP theft works. I've been a software engineer for a long time and I know that Reading and making sense of an existing million line code base is a hella of a lot harder than just writing new code from scratch. Why on earth would anyone want to steal source code from a compe…

Million lines of code from scratch is not easy in any way. Especially if you are talking about battle-tested code, which had already faced and accounted for many corner cases.

Maybe the best way is to write it yourself and when you face an issue you try to see how they solved it? It's fairly doable to understand a small part of the code until you see what they needed to do. I wouldn't call it reading all the millions of lines,I agree with OP that that would most likely take longer.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#255

Post by kazagistar »

TeeWEE wrote: post #219
jorblumesea wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I think they might also have got caught in the geopolitical crossfire I think it's extremely naive to think that Huawei is just an innocent victim. Almost willfully so. > I think the stealing instead of R&D thing is somewhat misled. These guys are definitely spending billions on research as well. If you really think Huawei's R&D theft is blown out of proportion, there's a huge mountain of evidence that suggests…

Could you also react on his arguments that: - lots of companies, like apple, are stealing from non US companies. - US companies like Google and Facebook have much more personal data than huawai. The whole privacy concern regarding Huawai is not well argumented. And its mostly an excuse by trump to attack China that is becoming a big world economy with manufacturing and technology skills rivalling USA. Huawai is good…

He reacted by citing evidence for his claims. Now it's time for the Huawei defenders to cite evidence for this supposed equivalency, and prove it's not just propaganda.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#256

Post by Fragoel2 »

totalZero wrote: post #239
djrogers wrote: post #218

About a dozen years ago I was working for a small-ish hardware company ($350-400M revenue), which was acquired by a bigger company. BiggerCo had a Joint Venture with Huawei (let’s called it JVco). About 6 months Post acquisition one of our employees found that Huawei was selling a 100% complete rip-off of one of our products. JVco had access to some of our development resources, but Huawei was never supposed to see a…

Kind of makes you wonder why Boeing would build a finishing plant in Zhoushan and Apple would put so much of its iPhone production in Zhengzhou and Shenzhen.

Because its cheap, if you only look at the immediate profit without considering the long term implications

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#257

Post by lexs »

thorowawaytoga wrote: post #176

In a small town in Israel, called Hod Hasharon there was a company named "Toga Networks". This company was paying as twice as you currenly earn, if you work at Cisco or Juniper. Just like that, as twice as, just ocme work with us. One year went by, and it turned out that Toga Network is no other than Huawei. So I do not know about stealing source code, but I know they looked after its IP which is in people's mind.

What exactly is so bad about hiring people with good résumés? Tesla hired people from Jaguar, BMW etc. is that nefarious as well?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#258

Post by Udik »

echelon wrote: post #107
tpudlik wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this as a win-win, too, but in a different way. Early on, the US companies cut their costs: good for them, and likely their customers. In the long term, China developed the expertise needed to contribute to the development of advanced technologies: good for them, and for humanity's aggregate progress. There's a lot of acrimony over how to divide the surplus, but this shouldn't overshadow the technological and e…

> good for them, and for humanity's aggregate progress. I don't think social credit and proof that democracy isn't necessary for profit is good for humanity's progress.

Maybe with a social credit system the US wouldn't have elected Trump. /s

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#259

Post by cianmm »

Fragoel2 wrote: post #256
totalZero wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of makes you wonder why Boeing would build a finishing plant in Zhoushan and Apple would put so much of its iPhone production in Zhengzhou and Shenzhen.

Because its cheap, if you only look at the immediate profit without considering the long term implications

Apple have been there for quite some time, they’re probably happy enough with the trade off.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#260

Post by blackrock »

jorblumesea wrote: post #148
throwawei wrote: post #87

Using a throwaway to share our $0.02 relating to this. AMA I guess. We're a US-based startup that does about $100-200k in business annually with Futurewei (Huawei's R&D subsidiary). I've never dealt with Huawei proper. I can say they're genuinely investing in R&D, and trying to build a product unlike anything being offered right now. We're working with tech that's floating around the academic conferences, but no one…

But, don't you see the connection between their risk high investments and the IP they've stolen from US companies? If anything, Huawei made its name of stealing from Nortel, Cisco, etc. Not to mention, questionable ties to the CCP. If they have R&D money to burn, it's because they've saved billions on R&D because they stole it. To see them as "good actor" because of a token $200k, while stealing literally tens of bil…

You should realize that saving billions of dollars on R&D is not really a good thing. It may get you up to a point, but you stagnate afterwards, because you didn't cover your fundamentals and build the skills necessary to advance forward.

At a national level, the R&D spending is actually important to build up your society's fundamental expertise in an area. You learn from your failures and mistakes. And in the meanwhile, you build up the expertise in your population, and those people, may later leave, and form other companies, which further advances your society.

However, if you can get the research results of your competitors, and learn that certain paths don't work, then you can save time and money, and not go down that same path. But, I still feel that you learn most from your failures, because you build in safeguards to prevent them from happening again in the future. So you end up with a technique, a system of systems, to build out your final product.

It's like Edison said, "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

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