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Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

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Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#41

Post by kiba »

EGreg wrote: post #27

Why are so many people angry about this? Lots of our country's wealth and jobs comes from companies started recently (e.g. Apple, Google). And we have to develop alternative energy sources to break our dependence on oil (which is coming to an end sooner than the foreign oil cartel will let on). Not only that, but if we can end America's retarded policy of running around in the deserts of the middle east -- a policy l…

Why are so many people angry about this? Lots of our country's wealth and jobs comes from companies started recently (e.g. Apple, Google). And we have to develop alternative energy sources to break our dependence on oil (which is coming to an end sooner than the foreign oil cartel will let on).

Just let the energy market do its damn job. Once oil become cheap, nuclear and solar energy looks damn good.

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#42

Post by smokeyj »

wybo wrote: post #39
smokeyj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the government is doing here is 'tinkering' with a process that doesn't involve them. When such tinkering occurs, societal and market distortions are introduced in unanticipated manners. How could the government, sponsoring a few thousand startups, be harmful to anyone? If they start competing with existing VCs, angels and incubators, they may become the ONLY source of funding. Look at the Dodd-Frank Act, they'r…

Yes, but wheter you like it or not, the government is tinkering with the rest of the economy anyway. So it becomes a choice between anti-startup tinkering, or both pro- and anti-startup tinkering. I prefer the latter, but then I am no VC. (an additional thing to note is that the government is generally slow to respond to the economy, so if and when the tech economy goes into another winter, the government will at lea…

This is a debate about centralized vs decentralized resource planning. Being an entrepreneur, and not a Statist, I prefer the individual be empowered to direct his own resources as he sees fit.

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#43

Post by _pius »

hnal943 wrote: post #35
_pius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nerve of them, trying to encourage entrepreneurs to come to "the ghetto." How dare they want to spur economic growth among those ... people!

If the startups are not founded by "those people" in the ghetto, they will be unaffected by its presence.

That's just not true ... bringing new businesses to an economically depressed area helps all of the existing businesses.

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#44

Post by steveklabnik »

credo wrote: post #17

I find it amusing that the top-ranked comment describes the program as "fascist" For decades, big corporations and venture capitalists (and their lobbyists) have used every trick in the book to get themselves special advantages. Huge loopholes mean that the effective US corporate is the fourth lowest rate in the OECD (though the official tax rate is the second highest in the OECD). This is a great example of dysfunct…

> I find it amusing that the top-ranked comment describes the program as "fascist" > For decades, big corporations and venture capitalists (and their lobbyists) have used every trick in the book to get themselves special advantages.

Congratulations! You're on the way to understanding the viewpoint of the far left. (and I mean a generic 'you', I'd say your last sentence implies that you actually understand this.)

The idea (which I'm partial to, but this is just my opinion, etc, I'm still reading a lot, yadda yadda yadda) is that that's the inherent way that these things trend, unchecked. You're watching it unfold before your very eyes.

It's much harder to see historical events happening as they're happening.

(disclaimer: I also think that describing this as 'facist,' while good intentioned and kinda correct, suffers too much from the emotional response to the term 'facism' to really be effective.)

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#45

Post by EGreg »

kiba wrote: post #41
EGreg wrote: post #27

Why are so many people angry about this? Lots of our country's wealth and jobs comes from companies started recently (e.g. Apple, Google). And we have to develop alternative energy sources to break our dependence on oil (which is coming to an end sooner than the foreign oil cartel will let on). Not only that, but if we can end America's retarded policy of running around in the deserts of the middle east -- a policy l…

Why are so many people angry about this? Lots of our country's wealth and jobs comes from companies started recently (e.g. Apple, Google). And we have to develop alternative energy sources to break our dependence on oil (which is coming to an end sooner than the foreign oil cartel will let on). Just let the energy market do its damn job. Once oil become cheap, nuclear and solar energy looks damn good.

How is attracting more startups to certain industries by improving the conditions for them, preventing the energy market from doing its job? What is its job?

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#47

Post by smokeyj »

credo wrote: post #17

I find it amusing that the top-ranked comment describes the program as "fascist" For decades, big corporations and venture capitalists (and their lobbyists) have used every trick in the book to get themselves special advantages. Huge loopholes mean that the effective US corporate is the fourth lowest rate in the OECD (though the official tax rate is the second highest in the OECD). This is a great example of dysfunct…

> However, if folks are going to describe it as "fascist", I'd be interested to know why they haven't described the current system (with all of its tax loopholes and incentives) as fascist

How could you NOT consider the US a fascist state? If we're not fascist, then no one is.

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#48

Post by daniel-cussen »

nika wrote: post #9
watchandwait wrote: post #5

So policymakers have wrecked traditional capital markets through regulations on raising capital, interest rate distortions, twisted tax policy, patent law abuse, and anti-hiring labor policy, and now they are going to "fix" VC markets for us. Thanks. The feds can't even protect the border or catch Osama bin Laden and now they want to run some fascist incubator to give the political class even greater control over our…

When this was first announced a couple weeks ago, I read the "fact sheet" posted. In it they talked about an emphasis on putting the money into "disadvantaged areas" and "focusing on innovative technologies like clean energy". So, your concern about investments being made more based on political pull than on merit is well founded. Over 50 years ago an environment of heavy government regulation and anti-competitive le…

I was with you until you mentioned 4,000,000 jobs lost over 10 years on a $2B mix of taxes and inflaton. $5k per job? You sure about that?

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#49

Post by scottkduncan »

nika wrote: post #9
watchandwait wrote: post #5

So policymakers have wrecked traditional capital markets through regulations on raising capital, interest rate distortions, twisted tax policy, patent law abuse, and anti-hiring labor policy, and now they are going to "fix" VC markets for us. Thanks. The feds can't even protect the border or catch Osama bin Laden and now they want to run some fascist incubator to give the political class even greater control over our…

When this was first announced a couple weeks ago, I read the "fact sheet" posted. In it they talked about an emphasis on putting the money into "disadvantaged areas" and "focusing on innovative technologies like clean energy". So, your concern about investments being made more based on political pull than on merit is well founded. Over 50 years ago an environment of heavy government regulation and anti-competitive le…

> "I like to point out that taking $2B out of the economy will prevent the creation of- in my estimation- 4,000,000 jobs over the next 10 years."

That's quite an estimate. I'm not quite sure how you got to this figure, but this seems to say that each $500 of additional taxes reduces job creation by one ($2B/4M). Inverting this logic would mean that the recent $120 billion reduction in payroll taxes, which was only part of the package extending the Bush tax cut, should allow for the creation of 240,000,000 jobs. Way to go Obama...although now we need to find a couple hundred million more Americans to fill all these awesome jobs you created!

I'm surprised there are such wild claims in such a highly rated post.

Re: Obama-Endorsed VC Program Promises 6,000 New Startups

#50

Post by nkassis »

sskates wrote: post #16
nkassis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The money must come from taxes or inflation," that's not how gov economics work. You borrow that money, hence you only pay the interest (until you can't). Now this model can be sustained as long as the economy grows faster than the interest you have to pay. This is why deficits spending isn't in itself that bad, it's the size of the deficit that's the issue. (probably oversimplified the whole issue but that's what I…

Sorry, the government can't create wealth for free. If the government wants to allocate dollars, it must at some point come from taxes (pulling dollars in the economy back out of it) or inflation (printing more dollars and decreasing the value currently held dollars). Now, the economy may grow such that the amount of wealth in the future is much larger than the amount we have now, and therefore represents a smaller f…

What if the money allocated by the gov ends up creating more wealth than it would have previously? This is important to consider I think. This kind of program in my view can be a good idea if it creates more wealth than taken from the economy. I know it's unpopular to say this but government can create wealth (internet, space, health research...) that I don't think would have happened without.
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