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Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

latimes.com

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Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#151

Post by na85 »

captain_qwark wrote: post #140
root_axis wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use the same rhetorical tactic in reverse e.g. "explain how paying employees for an additional 20 minutes of their time justifies outsourcing their jobs". You'd respond "well that's only one example..."

You're not making any sense dude. My reply points out that it's ridiculous to imply that waiting unpaid for your employer to search you before leaving is anything near a dystopia.

Nobody implied that "waiting to get searched == dystopia". That's a straw man you constructed to argue with.

My point is about the overall attitude you expressed which is that it's somehow the workers' fault that their jobs are being outsourced to poor countries because they were so silly as to demand rights and compensation for time that they are forced to be at work.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#152

Post by cma »

captain_qwark wrote: post #116
cma wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure Apple has the money to hire that next employee even with these additional costs, but they won't because they don't legally have to. This is about retail workers. Until they get telerobotic, outsourcing to get around local labor laws doesn't seem like a concern.

Read the rest of what I wrote. Of course they're not gonna outsource retail, but they will not hire as many people as they could if there were no costs of searching workers.

>Read the rest of what I wrote. [...] but they will not hire as many people as they could if there were no costs of searching workers.

I did read it all. It is super confusing. And what you said was that Apple could hire them even with the costs of searching workers ("Sure Apple has the money to hire") but they won't because they don't have to ("but they won't because they don't legally have to"). Obviously any expense is going to change their decision calculus, but that seemed to be exactly what you weren't saying.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#153

Post by flukus »

8ytecoder wrote: post #81

As a thought experiment, what if companies are made to pay for commute time? How would that change the labour market? Would they hire local? Provide better transportation? Work with cities to reduce congestion? Encourage more remote work? Decide it's too expensive to hire workers and cut hours? Work towards more inclusive housing?

They kind of sort of do via tax. The tax helps pay for the infrastructure that allow their employees to get to work, along with contributing to a healthy and educated workforce.

If they paid directly I think it would result in a two (or more) tiered transport network, great for people in some jobs/companies but terrible for most.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#154

Post by dsfyu404ed »

8ytecoder wrote: post #81

As a thought experiment, what if companies are made to pay for commute time? How would that change the labour market? Would they hire local? Provide better transportation? Work with cities to reduce congestion? Encourage more remote work? Decide it's too expensive to hire workers and cut hours? Work towards more inclusive housing?

>As a thought experiment, what if companies are made to pay for commute time?

As someone who grew up on an island I think this is a very, very, bad idea. When distance has a high cost the price of everything skyrockets.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#155

Post by alistairSH »

pier25 wrote: post #3

Is this common in the US? (retail workers being searched)

More and more so. I guess because wages have stagnated, and some companies actively keep employees at part-time hours to avoid paying benefits, so theft is more enticing? Dunno, just a guess.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#156

Post by mr_toad »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #53
jrockway wrote: post #15

> Employees are supposed to find a manager or security officer to do the searches after they clock out. Employees estimate that waiting for and undergoing the searches can take five to 20 minutes, or, on busiest days, up to 45 minutes. This also seems to be their process for picking up orders at the store. It's pure chaos, and I find it at least somewhat amusing that at least Apple treats their employees and customer…

Does Apple really have a “process” for picking items up? I ordered a maxed out iMac Pro for around $15,000 and waited nearly a month for it to finally arrive at the store. I got a voice mail and an email instructing me to come pick it up. Only upon driving all the way to the store was I finally informed in person that they “accidentally” gave my iMac Pro to the wrong customer an hour ago who had merely ordered a base…

They probably get paid on commission for walk-in sales.

I’ve seen other stores appropriate internet orders to make a sale. From the salespersons perspective they don’t have much to lose.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#157

Post by pdkl95 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #125
svnpenn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you lose your soul?

All the buyers who choose to buy at cheaper prices from sellers who cut corners such as matz1 is saying enable the behavior. Sweatshops are common knowledge, yet everyone has no problem continuing to purchase garments from them at cheaper prices, not to mention the electronics, chemicals, and who knows what else we get from other places with even more lax oversight. In some businesses, I bet you can’t even survive if…

There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

https://marxist.ca/article/why-there-is-no-ethical-consumpti...

> I bet you can’t even survive if you don’t abuse employees

So what? It's still abuse.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#158

Post by [deleted] »

captain_qwark wrote: post #108

This kind of shit is why companies export labor to other countries. American workers are so expensive for so many reasons unrelated to the actual labor, and it's all because worker rights have moved from the realm of "what needs to be" to "what should be". Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury. Sure Apple has the money to hire that ne…

[deleted]

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#159

Post by MeltySmelty »

FriendlyNormie wrote: post #53
jrockway wrote: post #15

> Employees are supposed to find a manager or security officer to do the searches after they clock out. Employees estimate that waiting for and undergoing the searches can take five to 20 minutes, or, on busiest days, up to 45 minutes. This also seems to be their process for picking up orders at the store. It's pure chaos, and I find it at least somewhat amusing that at least Apple treats their employees and customer…

Does Apple really have a “process” for picking items up? I ordered a maxed out iMac Pro for around $15,000 and waited nearly a month for it to finally arrive at the store. I got a voice mail and an email instructing me to come pick it up. Only upon driving all the way to the store was I finally informed in person that they “accidentally” gave my iMac Pro to the wrong customer an hour ago who had merely ordered a base…

lol, 15k

oh my lord, sucker every minute

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#160

Post by ridgeguy »

captain_qwark wrote: post #108

This kind of shit is why companies export labor to other countries. American workers are so expensive for so many reasons unrelated to the actual labor, and it's all because worker rights have moved from the realm of "what needs to be" to "what should be". Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury. Sure Apple has the money to hire that ne…

>Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury.

It's not a luxury for me to be paid for the only irreplaceable capital I have, which is my time. When Apple gets a benefit by using my time, I expect to be paid.

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