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Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

latimes.com

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Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#111

Post by pmiller2 »

angry_octet wrote: post #86
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re going to spend $50,000 on a computer, you can probably hire two security guards / off duty cops for an hour each at $250 an hour?

The whole notion of employing off duty police as security is antithetical to the proper administration of justice and highlights systematic malaise. As well as the fear of robbery for such a low value and traceable item. Edit because I can't reply: Just off duty police. Police have significant powers, even off duty. In addition, if you pay them well they might do favors for you when on duty. Like looking for someone…

I wouldn’t call $50k a “low value” item. What item does the average person own that’s worth $50k besides a house or a car?

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#112

Post by cma »

captain_qwark wrote: post #108

This kind of shit is why companies export labor to other countries. American workers are so expensive for so many reasons unrelated to the actual labor, and it's all because worker rights have moved from the realm of "what needs to be" to "what should be". Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury. Sure Apple has the money to hire that ne…

> Sure Apple has the money to hire that next employee even with these additional costs, but they won't because they don't legally have to.

This is about retail workers. Until they get telerobotic, outsourcing to get around local labor laws doesn't seem like a concern.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#113

Post by matz1 »

angry_octet wrote: post #102
matz1 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Alternatively, you could treat people like people and give them an actual measure of respect instead of stealing time and money from them Thats depends on what one value, if you think treat people like people is important then yes you should do it but if one value profit then doing what apple did make sense.

Would you be unhappy if someone stole money from your bank account? Because you're condoning theft. It's not clever business practices, it's theft.

>Would you be unhappy if someone stole money from your bank account?

If I'm the one being stolen, of course but not if I'm the one who stole (again provided I will not be in trouble).

Provided they won't get in trouble, how is it not a clever business practice?

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#114

Post by na85 »

captain_qwark wrote: post #108

This kind of shit is why companies export labor to other countries. American workers are so expensive for so many reasons unrelated to the actual labor, and it's all because worker rights have moved from the realm of "what needs to be" to "what should be". Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury. Sure Apple has the money to hire that ne…

Ugh, what an icky position to take.

You're essentially arguing that workers should submit to whatever corporate dystopia the owner class can cook up, or else they'll simply find their jobs outsourced to countries where people don't have the luxury of organizing for collective action to improve labour conditions because they're too busy scraping to put food on the table.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#115

Post by DangerousPie »

londons_explore wrote: post #92
8ytecoder wrote: post #81

As a thought experiment, what if companies are made to pay for commute time? How would that change the labour market? Would they hire local? Provide better transportation? Work with cities to reduce congestion? Encourage more remote work? Decide it's too expensive to hire workers and cut hours? Work towards more inclusive housing?

This is already the case in the UK for employees who frequently work away from their main office - the employer is expected to pay both time and expenses for travel. It hasn't dramatically reduced commute time for those people IMO.

That’s not really a commute then though is it?

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#116

Post by captain_qwark »

cma wrote: post #112
captain_qwark wrote: post #108

This kind of shit is why companies export labor to other countries. American workers are so expensive for so many reasons unrelated to the actual labor, and it's all because worker rights have moved from the realm of "what needs to be" to "what should be". Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury. Sure Apple has the money to hire that ne…

> Sure Apple has the money to hire that next employee even with these additional costs, but they won't because they don't legally have to. This is about retail workers. Until they get telerobotic, outsourcing to get around local labor laws doesn't seem like a concern.

Read the rest of what I wrote. Of course they're not gonna outsource retail, but they will not hire as many people as they could if there were no costs of searching workers.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#117

Post by ohmaigad »

DangerousPie wrote: post #115
londons_explore wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already the case in the UK for employees who frequently work away from their main office - the employer is expected to pay both time and expenses for travel. It hasn't dramatically reduced commute time for those people IMO.

That’s not really a commute then though is it?

This is in the EU:

"The European Union Court of Justice has ruled that time spent traveling to and from your job counts as work, and that your employer has to pay you for it. But don’t get too excited–this only counts if you have no fixed office or place of work. The new law is designed to protect workers who travel to remote sites, straight from their home. If you commute to the same office cubicle every day, nothing changes."

https://www.fastcompany.com/3063893/the-eu-says-that-some-co...

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#118

Post by captain_qwark »

na85 wrote: post #114
captain_qwark wrote: post #108

This kind of shit is why companies export labor to other countries. American workers are so expensive for so many reasons unrelated to the actual labor, and it's all because worker rights have moved from the realm of "what needs to be" to "what should be". Of course it would be ideal if your employer paid you for the time it took to search you after work, but this is a luxury. Sure Apple has the money to hire that ne…

Ugh, what an icky position to take. You're essentially arguing that workers should submit to whatever corporate dystopia the owner class can cook up, or else they'll simply find their jobs outsourced to countries where people don't have the luxury of organizing for collective action to improve labour conditions because they're too busy scraping to put food on the table.

Explain to me how waiting 20 minutes after punching out is a dystopia.

Re: Apple store workers should be paid for time waiting to be searched, court rules

#119

Post by confidantlake »

Never had any issues waiting at an apple store. I was thinking to myself while reading this wow people's experience is way more negative than my own. But it makes sense, if you have good but not extraordinary service you are unlikely to leave a comment. Most comments will come from those having poor service.

Good ruling, pay the employees if you make them wait.

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