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Burnoutindex.org

burnoutindex.org

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Re: Burnoutindex.org

#41

Post by Freak_NL »

marcossponton wrote: post #18
Freak_NL wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No personal information is asked, so the dataset will be pretty useless for monetization (you could just computationally generate a couple of thousand of responses and pretend it was the real deal). uBlock Origin blocked one weird tracker-like third-party I didn't recognize: fullstory.com. The rest were the usual Google analytics crap.

Marcos here, one of the members of the team behind this. Fullstory is to understand this project as a product and to see where it needs to be improved (because users don't understand or try to do things that we didn't considered, etc.). Only personal data (mail) is asked for those interested to stay in the loop in some way. The dataset without those emails will be on Github soon :)

Why not just add a link add the end or in a footer where users can submit suggestions and report bugs? When you are engaging users in mental health related questions, any tracking is suspect and creepy.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#42

Post by jamil7 »

acrefoot wrote: post #29
tempsy wrote: post #15

I don't think burnout is really about overwork so much as spending even 40 hours a week doing something that is contrary to your own personal values. I suspect a lot of people work on things (ads, selling more crap, getting people in more debt, etc.) that they ultimately don't think really matter or are a net benefit to society.

I think it's possible to burn out working on things you think are important but that are chronically underfunded or ignored. For example, I can imagine working on cleantech or green NGOs only to be consistently frustrated that people don't want to pay for better recycling and cleaner energy, or want to reduce their water usage.

I've worked on and around volunteer and open source projects for social and environmental causes and burn out is an issue there too. Often for some of the reasons you mention, other factors are also lack of resources and an inhibility to come to quick decisions and move a project forward, it can feel like you're going nowhere and having the same conversations over and over.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#43

Post by thrower123 »

katetoss wrote: post #26
thrower123 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sentiment, but some perspective is in order. We're in the goddamn catbird seat. We make a shitload of money, we actually do have good health insurance, and we punch keyboards in a heated office at a desk. We're not mining coal or working in the fertilizer plant from The Jungle. In this economy, if your work environment sucks, the door is open and there are greener pastures. The biggest problem is really tha…

Throwaway, here. If you can't afford to buy a house on a single-income where you live you aren't making a shitload of money. Tech is a small club. There is a blacklist. There are backchannel lines of communication. Piss off the wrong people and it will follow you for years.

The Bay is not the world. Most of it is not anywhere near that kind of pathological situation.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#45

Post by sz4kerto »

Be really careful with these surveys.

The problems of these, among other things:

- mixing up burnout risk with burnout

- mixing up burnout with physical or mental fatigue

- not serving any purpose (i.e. not providing good directions)

Burnout is primarily a negative change in perception, and it's a spectrum, obviously. You get burned out when your perception of the same situation gets progressively worse. This can be caused by various factors -- exhaustion, doing stuff that doesn't match your values, etc. It can also be prevented in various ways; i.e. you can do very exhausting work and not get burned out.

A really simplistic, but fun/useful way of detecting burnout (not the risk): if you regularly think that you and your team/company/environment work hard, but your customers/broader company/other teams are stupid/not intelligent/not constructive, then that's the first phase ('us vs them'). This can progress to the next phase, where it's more like 'me vs them', so you despise most of your environment. This is when people tend to leave. The last step is apathy, people rarely end here.

It's not really possible to move backwards on this scale without changing roles/work/colleagues.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#46

Post by Grimm1 »

fogetti wrote: post #22
thrower123 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sentiment, but some perspective is in order. We're in the goddamn catbird seat. We make a shitload of money, we actually do have good health insurance, and we punch keyboards in a heated office at a desk. We're not mining coal or working in the fertilizer plant from The Jungle. In this economy, if your work environment sucks, the door is open and there are greener pastures. The biggest problem is really tha…

Except that this is not true. The average salary of a software engineer in Japan, Germany and other highly developed nations is only slightly better than let's say an accountant's. If we take the amortized hourly wage by considering unpaid overtime then it becomes even worse which is on par with an average high school teacher or alike. In some cases considering the unpaid overtime plus the unpaid self-studies it can…

Edit: I'm going to put this here because it clearly rubbed some people the wrong way, HN and YC were historically US focused they have since expanded but this site still has a large US population that view and post on it and with that come a bias for this group, including myself, to think in terms of the US market. My below statement, which to me is entirely benign, is basically saying that's what we do. Is it right? I don't know but frankly I don't know anything about non US markets in terms of software engineering jobs and I wouldn't attempt to make a statement in terms of those markets because I don't know them. I do know my own market though and thus you'll get posts from me in terms of that market and I'm not particularly sorry about that.

So first off this has traditionally been a US centric site, so you'll have to excuse that most things take a US centric view and we do make a lot of money in the US software industry.

Second I have never once worked a job like that and every time I see people talk about this like its the industry norm I kind of become incredulous to the fact. The US market is so good you can turn down jobs like that.

I can't help but thinking the overtime you take on is more about you and not pushing back but again maybe this is different outside of the US. Here in the US at least, what are they going to do fire you? Cool, if they do your salary probably just increased by 10-20k USD as you find a new job in I get that what you're saying is your reality but it certainly hasn't been mine and if you push back on things more you'll maybe find it doesn't have to be yours either. It's our market and we have high leverage because how desperate jobs are for Devs of all flavors.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#47

Post by bla3 »

jdkee wrote: post #3

Perhaps tech workers should unionize and demand better healthcare, 40 hour work weeks, etc.

You can burn out no problem with great healthcare and 40 hour work weeks.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#48

Post by wcunning »

I got a 2.1/6, which is less than 50%. Apparently this is a "high" risk of burnout... Why not replace it with a button that says "Do you work in tech?" Yes -> High Risk of Burnout, since that's the vibe they're going with.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#49

Post by themodelplumber »

notJim wrote: post #2

I immediately went to do this quiz, but then I couldn't help but wonder if this might be one of those Cambridge Analytica style "quizzes" where they're harvesting psychological data for unknown purposes. I'm not sure if this makes me sound savvy or insane.

Taking your comment into consideration, it seems like the quiz format could potentially shut out some of those it rather intends to help--its core audience even...how sad would that be.

Imagine those who would elevate your reality-grounded concern (incorporating the current privacy culture context as it does) to the paranoia level, many of whom would do so simply because stress has so affected their judgment process.

I know folks who work in tech for whom this would be a very quick and biting "no" due to such paranoia. But many of these same people urgently need to set boundaries and address destructive issues with their self-criticism circuits. They are burnt out.

Re: Burnoutindex.org

#50

Post by janee »

I'm a sucker for questionnaires, but this just seemed to simplistic. I'd say you might as well replace the questions with a single "how burnt out do you feel" input.

Would love to see how different industries compare on some of these scores.

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