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US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

arstechnica.com

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Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#271

Post by dependenttypes »

simonh wrote: post #250
dependenttypes wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is more dangerous for an American (or even European) citizen? The US or China spying at them? Even if China is more evil in its domestic affairs a western civilian has much more to fear from the US.

Well, the PLA has been caught red handed, twice, hacking Western firms and financial insitutions, including installing malware and identify theft which could be used to impersonate and hack members of the public. The USA is far from clean on this issue, but I don't think we know enough to properly characterise the relative threats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Unit_61398

And the NSA has been known to monitor all kinds of communications "which could be used to impersonate and hack members of the public". (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailored_Access_Operations#NSA...)

The ideal would be to use open-source hardware and e2e encryption, but if this is not possible I would suggest these scared of the US to use Chinese phones and these scares of China to use US phones.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#272

Post by dustfinger »

bob1122 wrote: post #164
dustfinger wrote: post #100

Note: The following might be considered off-topic. On the otherhand, there might be something nefarious in the SMS network. I found something strange that affects SMS in Canada. You can send the lower case text "secure communication", but it will never be recieved by the recipient. I am not sure if this behavior is reproducible outside of Canada. It might be a software defect, or perhaps there is something capturing…

Tried it, works. Also seems to not deliver SMSs that contain other combinations with 'secure communication' within it. E.g. 'Hahahaha juice secure communication james' or 'Not secure communication'

Yes, if the words "secure communication" in all lower case appear anywhere in the message, then the message won't be delivered. There can even be text appended to the beginning and end of the words [0]. i.e. foosecure communicationbar will also not be received. However; there must be exactly one blank space between the words.

Having said that, this is not working for everyone. I am trying to gather data on this to figure out where the issue might stem from. Would you be comfortable disclosing the make/model and carrier service of the sender and receiver. If you would prefer, you may contact me directly with this information and I won't include your identity in the record. My email is linked in the header of the blog post. I also have a public key [2] if you feel so inclined to send me a secure communication :-P

[0] https://bloggerbust.ca/post/text-messages-are-being-censored...

[1] https://bloggerbust.ca/about/#my-public-key

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#273

Post by dustfinger »

smitop wrote: post #212
dustfinger wrote: post #100

Note: The following might be considered off-topic. On the otherhand, there might be something nefarious in the SMS network. I found something strange that affects SMS in Canada. You can send the lower case text "secure communication", but it will never be recieved by the recipient. I am not sure if this behavior is reproducible outside of Canada. It might be a software defect, or perhaps there is something capturing…

On a related note, if you start an SMS with "!", then the leading exclamation point will be stripped, and a delivery confirmation SMS will automatically be sent (not sure if it's from the mobile network or the receiving phone). This makes it possible to send zero-character SMSes.

That is interesting. I will try that out later today.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#274

Post by La1n »

pyuser583 wrote: post #242
ancientworldnow wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also has a history of ethnic cleansing, is the originator of the concentration camp, has more people imprisoned than any other state in history, has black sites where police disappear people to (Chicago police department famously) as well as federal agencies doing the same, selectively prosecutes poor and minorities at disproportionate rates in terms of crimes committed and the magnitude of those crimes, and o…

That’s why the US censors the Internet. To prevent people from finding out about Martin Luther Kings March on Washington, or John Browns revolt.

The comment you reply to is [flagged] and [dead], while not done by the government it is still censored.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#275

Post by syshum »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #102
syshum wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a US Resident, China has no authority to murder me or put me in a cage like the US Government does. So if I had to choose I would prefer china over the NSA, Of course neither is the best option but ..... if I lived in China the inverse would be true

This is dangerously naieve and short-sighted. Look at how readily China already uses our own corporations against us. ESPN showed a map of china with the nine-dash-line. Hollywood won't dare to offend the Chinese government. Our tech companies are willingly censoring themselves. Our corporations influence our politicians, and China is exerting influence on our corporations. If they have access to an enormous volume o…

So then the solution is to ensure NO GOVERNMENT has the ability to spy on people

Not to lambast china while excusing the US Government that requires that type of spying by law.

Do you believe that the US Government is above " blackmail or data mining" or "won't use that against us for political gains", both of which has been proven to be true

Everyone is Soo fucking afraid of foreign influence on our politics they ignore the domestic influence of the same nature.

Personally I believe the NSA and CIA to be more dangerous to our liberties than China or Russia.

As Lincoln said many many moons ago, If we lose our freedoms it will because we destroyed ourselves

As far as the tech companies / Hollywood censoring because of china, for the product in china sure but they censor their products here because they want to, china is just a convenient excuse that naive people believe. It is a way to shit shift the blame "no no we did not want to, big bad china made us" bullshit

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#276

Post by syshum »

gruez wrote: post #93
syshum wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a US Resident, China has no authority to murder me or put me in a cage like the US Government does. So if I had to choose I would prefer china over the NSA, Of course neither is the best option but ..... if I lived in China the inverse would be true

That argument really only works if you're a political activist or even an average citizen. However, if you're a high level executive, defense contractor, or a high ranking government employee, do you really want the Chinese government to have access to your comms AND know your movements?

good thing I am just an average American citizen then

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#277

Post by syshum »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #270
CWuestefeld wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

publicly mock your leaders on the front steps of your legislature So long as those steps are designated as a "free speech zone".

Oh boy, the worst thing that will happen is that you might have to move a little ways down the street. Horrifying.

That is a naive view to look at a situation where an armed man is telling you at gunpoint to "move a little way down the street" with the implied ending to the statement being or I will shoot you, or forcibly remove you to an iron cage

People always seem to forget, all government actions and regulations no matter how small are acts of violence. They are not voluntary and are backed by the threat of legal violence to anyone that dare resist.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#278

Post by franga2000 »

smitop wrote: post #212
dustfinger wrote: post #100

Note: The following might be considered off-topic. On the otherhand, there might be something nefarious in the SMS network. I found something strange that affects SMS in Canada. You can send the lower case text "secure communication", but it will never be recieved by the recipient. I am not sure if this behavior is reproducible outside of Canada. It might be a software defect, or perhaps there is something capturing…

On a related note, if you start an SMS with "!", then the leading exclamation point will be stripped, and a delivery confirmation SMS will automatically be sent (not sure if it's from the mobile network or the receiving phone). This makes it possible to send zero-character SMSes.

Huh, just tried it and the ! got through. Could be network- or encoding-specific?

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#279

Post by franga2000 »

blattimwind wrote: post #98
pmlnr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those "if X has access, so does everyone else" and rule makers still don't seem to grasp it.

"Because I can log into my sshd, so can everyone else"...? We are not talking about weak crypto here (though AFAIK 5G crypto is designed to be decidedly not E2E), but rather access to the data processed by these systems. There is no particular reason why granting e.g. the NSA access to a stream of CDRs would immediately give others access.

I don't think anyone is saying immediately, but these are long-lived fairly static systems.

I'm going to assume that you probably update your server's SSHd at least semi-regularly and that if SSH turns out to be broken 20 years down the line, you will probably be switching to something better either manually or when you eventually replace your hardware and reinstall the OS.

This kind of infrastructure is meant to last for decades. Imagine if the original GSM contained a backdoor with the state-of-the-art crypto of the time. Would it still hold up today? Hell, you don't have to imagine - a mid-range smartphone these days can crack a lot of GSM traffic.

Besides that, there's also the problem that not only are these things usually not done with state-of-the-art tech, but leaks happen all the time and it only takes one mistake* for the privkeys to become known.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#280

Post by BrendanD »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #149
BrendanD wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In western countries you can, in general, publicly mock your leaders on the front steps of your legislature. Try dancing in a Winnie-the-Pooh costume in front of the Great Hall of the People and see what happens...

Your comment has nothing to do with what you replied to. It wasn't about what country is better.

True. I completely misread the comment to which I replied. Oops! However, my preference is still to live in a socialist country where the government can be openly criticized.
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