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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#651

Post by Diederich »

_ph_ wrote: post #274
mrtksn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do people sleep or play on their phones then? Are the warnings not frequent and prominent enough? Are people hacking it and disabling it? What's the deal here?

The car detects your hand on the steering wheel. So technically speaking, as long as you keep one hand on the wheel, you can use your phone with the other hand :p. There are also devices avialable for purchase, which convince the car that there is a hand on the wheel. What I forgot to mention in the previous post: the autopilot does not only complain about hands off the wheel, but if you ignore the complaints long en…

You just need to bump the wheel every 15 seconds or so. The required interval seems to vary a certain amount, but in boring, easy, bumper to bumper traffic, where it makes the most sense, that's all that's required, in my experience at least.

> it does stop the car

More specifically: in my tests, it eventually disengages autopilot as well as adaptive cruise control (which only controls the break and acceleration) while beeping loudly and harshly. This has the affect of slowly causing the car to decelerate.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#652

Post by lovehashbrowns »

snowwrestler wrote: post #605
Nasrudith wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it a religion makes about as much sense as calling efforts to cure AIDS or vaccinate Polio prior to the success of Salk a religion. There is a clear and obvious good to achieve, one which is theoretically implementatable and has predecessors for success. Reality can only disagree if it is outright proven impossible due to something - say in this counterfactual Polio has a 5% of turning any unique adjacent mol…

There is zero proof that autonomous vehicles can be safer than human drivers. There’s lots of proof that autonomous vehicles are technically possible, but the leap to “definitely better than humans” is a very big one and it’s really being taken on faith right now. In contrast, treating disease directly affect the incidence of that disease.

There's "proof" that computers can be safer than humans. Faster reaction times, don't get tired, don't lose focus, can perform computations much faster than humans.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#653

Post by _ph_ »

Lammy wrote: post #608
_ph_ wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car detects your hand on the steering wheel. So technically speaking, as long as you keep one hand on the wheel, you can use your phone with the other hand :p. There are also devices avialable for purchase, which convince the car that there is a hand on the wheel. What I forgot to mention in the previous post: the autopilot does not only complain about hands off the wheel, but if you ignore the complaints long en…

> So people can't drive for long with their hands completely off the steering wheel, until they use some kind of defeating device. Is that what happened in this case then? Serious question; never driven a Tesla. https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2018/11/30/los-altos-pla...

As the driver was still unresponsive until woken by the police, I would think it was the autopilot eventually stopping the car.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#654

Post by justapassenger »

_ea1k wrote: post #164
Jasper_ wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single time this is posted, I have to remind people that the video posted on Tesla's own Autopilot website [0] says this RIGHT at the beginning: "The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" They are not saying "use with caution, autopilot is an assistance feature", they are saying "The car is driving itself". [0] https://www.tesla.com/aut…

Every time you do, I remind you that the page also makes it clear that current systems require supervision. I have a car with Mobileeye. Mobileye recently demonstrated fsd in Jerusalem. Fortunately, like everyone else who can read, I know that system is not the same system that I have installed on my car. Tesla’s wording really isn’t that different here.

Did the car salesman showed you video of that FSD demonstration, while they were describing driving assist features of a car you were buying?

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#655

Post by cavanasm »

NotATroll wrote: post #635
Alupis wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole self driving, fully autonomous thing has become some sort of strange faux-religion. It's followers see no other possible solution as acceptable. Instead of putting our heads together to make really good driver assistance technologies and being satisfied, the darn thing needs to also drive itself everywhere otherwise we're leaving something on the table! Untill we have zero deaths, we cannot stop demanding…

> Forget better frame, chassis, and body panel design to protect pedestrians! We won't need them if AI never hits anyone. Most car manufacturers have had this figured out for a long time with crumple zones and the like. > Forget better braking systems that apply themselves automatically Assisted braking technology is already implemented in some cars. Hell, Tesla implements basically exactly what you're asking for...…

Crumple zones are designed to protect the occupants, not anyone external to the vehicle. Granted, the kind of basic design changes that would pretty obviously help with pedestrian harm are also.....not sexy. So seems unlikely car manufacturers will sacrifice too much on the aesthetics front when car ownership is such a status symbol.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#656

Post by hugh-avherald »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #303
SilasX wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the public holds misconceptions about how much the autopilot on a plane does. But some of their beliefs are accurate, and would be dangerous when extended to a car: like how, when the plane AP is engaged, you don’t need sub-second reaction times for possible obstacles. You do need that in a Tesla.

Fairly sure that you do need that for autoland, to engage TO/GA (for go-around) and take control. Most other cases, AP disengagement indeed means "now we think about what next".

No. Required reaction times would be around 2-3 s. Even if you took 10s, you're not going to die -- you might hit the edge lights though

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#657

Post by dwild »

Alupis wrote: post #388
fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

This whole self driving, fully autonomous thing has become some sort of strange faux-religion. It's followers see no other possible solution as acceptable. Instead of putting our heads together to make really good driver assistance technologies and being satisfied, the darn thing needs to also drive itself everywhere otherwise we're leaving something on the table! Untill we have zero deaths, we cannot stop demanding…

> Forget better frame, chassis, and body panel design to protect pedestrians! We won't need them if AI never hits anyone.

> Forget better braking systems that apply themselves automatically. We don't need that if AI can always avoid the need for sudden stops.

> Forget seat belt enhancements since that'll just inhibit nap time in my self driving car.

Source? I never seen anyone arguing theses things for the sake of self driving. Are you just assuming that because people that want self driving really want self driving and the auto industry couldn't possible works on 2 things at the same time?

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#658

Post by madacol »

fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

Many opinions, but little data. It's hard to assess anything under this circumstances.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#659

Post by mumblemumble »

dkonofalski wrote: post #639
fxtentacle wrote: post #187

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

This is why I don't understand the sad conclusion of the story in the article. The driver knew that AutoPilot had issues with that stretch of the freeway and was able to repeat the issues on several occasions but still thought it best to be on his phone, while driving 71 mph, at the mercy of AutoPilot? Especially considering that he was an engineer who had expressed concern over this, it seems silly to me that he wou…

We don't need to understand it. We just need to know that, even armed with all that knowledge, he still made the decision he did, and that we should not expect others with less knowledge of how software works to be any less human.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#660

Post by amflare »

wbl wrote: post #650
NotATroll wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forget better frame, chassis, and body panel design to protect pedestrians! We won't need them if AI never hits anyone. Most car manufacturers have had this figured out for a long time with crumple zones and the like. > Forget better braking systems that apply themselves automatically Assisted braking technology is already implemented in some cars. Hell, Tesla implements basically exactly what you're asking for...…

Modern cars are deadly to pedestrians, especially SUVs.

Most 1-3 ton objects moving with any sort of momentum are. What is your point?
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