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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#271
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Autopilot" is not misleading. You just don't know what autopilot means. Autopilot on planes does not mean the plane is self-flying and the pilot doesn't have to pay attention anymore to take over at a moment's notice. Why would you think it's suddenly different in a car?

Regardless of what autopilot means to pilots, it means something else to drivers.

Why? Autopilot is a term borrowed directly from aviation.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People already do the things you listed, though. Hell, when my kids were in car seats I frequently had to reach around behind me to soothe them via touch. AutoPilot would have been a godsend, because I wouldn’t have had to stress out so much about juggling two things at once. This is the part where you call me irresponsible, right? It seems like every discussion on this topic follows that pattern. The fact remains, t…

> This is the part where you call me irresponsible, right? Well, yes. But let's say everybody does things like this: the problem is that on a normal car you'll try to keep the off-hand time at a minimum, keep half hand on the wheel, or just give up and stop the car. If you rely on autopilot you'l could just lower your attention for a longer time, and you can't rely on autopilot to actually do the right thing, it may…

So are you saying autopilot is, overall, a bad thing? Because it seems that the argument you are making is that the world is worse having it available, an argument I find to be perplexing.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Autopilot" is not misleading. You just don't know what autopilot means. Autopilot on planes does not mean the plane is self-flying and the pilot doesn't have to pay attention anymore to take over at a moment's notice. Why would you think it's suddenly different in a car?

People in general think this is what autopilot means since that is how it is portrayed in movies and books.

What movies are you watching where they turn on autopilot and the plane lands itself??

If anything, movies portray planes as extremely hard to fly, and the heroic pilot always has to take over from the autopilot.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#274
post #227
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the car is making noises when you don't hold the wheels and after 3 warnings, the Autopilot system is disabled until the car is restarted. The Autopilot is very explicitly not suitable for unobserved operation.

How do people sleep or play on their phones then? Are the warnings not frequent and prominent enough? Are people hacking it and disabling it? What's the deal here?

The car detects your hand on the steering wheel. So technically speaking, as long as you keep one hand on the wheel, you can use your phone with the other hand :p. There are also devices avialable for purchase, which convince the car that there is a hand on the wheel.

What I forgot to mention in the previous post: the autopilot does not only complain about hands off the wheel, but if you ignore the complaints long enough, it does stop the car. So people can't drive for long with their hands completely off the steering wheel, until they use some kind of defeating device.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From what I've seen Where? How? That's not a scientific statement. > Loads of people think pilots simply push a button then sit back and relax as the plane automatically taxis, takes off, flies then lands itself. Who thinks that? That seems like a hyperbole and you can't possibly know. > Tesla chose to inherit those misconceptions. Assuming all those above assumptions are true and assuming Tesla reached those same…

Are you being intentionally caustic? The phrase "running on autopilot" is an established colloquialism for doing something without being mindful of it, and almost every major dictionary definition of "autopilot" states that it is a system used to navigate something without a human. Demanding a rigorous scientific study on human understanding of a word is simply not necessary when there are multiple recorded videos of…

So do you have a problem with the name or a problem with people intentionally being stupid?

People trying to fool the system is not Tesla's fault and indicates they are aware of the warnings alerting them they need to pay attention.

If people are dangling bananas they're doing it for attention and you guys are feeding it and blaming the manufacturer.

Changing the product name will not change anything.

Humans will always be a piece of shit sometimes.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#276

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

> So now I'm afraid to use anything self-driving ^_^ I'm in the same boat but unfortunately you have to share the road with these things so it's hard to completely avoid them. I do find myself avoiding Tesla's on the freeway more and more.

I started avoiding Teslas on the freeway after watching the video of this guy putting on his makeup and shooting a youtube video while on autopilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT_rEa4X1nA

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#277
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love how quick Tesla is to throw their customers under the bus using telemetry data the customer cannot access on their own..

Calling it autopilot, full self driving is borderline criminal.

Autopilot is an appropriate term, taken from aviation. And no one calls it full self driving since that hasn't been released yet.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#278

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

I don't know where you got these papers but you clearly got an awful sampling and I don't think you're giving computer vision a fair evaluation. Granted, we're not quite ready for self driving, but there's no question that the neural network subfield of ML has absolutely exploded in the last 5-10 years and is bursting with productionizable, application ready architectures that are already solving real world problems.

There is 40-50% drop in precision with state of the art results if test images are ill-formed. The imagenet dataset used is far from ready for real world use cases. A bunch of IBM and MIT researchers are trying to fix this - https://objectnet.dev/

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#279
post #236

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

Yes. Current self-driving might be safer than the avarage driver, but what most people forget is how unsafe it is when it fails. It fails harder than most avarage drivers and even bad drivers. In my eyes self-driving should still be called driving-assistance.

> Current self-driving might be safer than the avarage driver,

So far there isn't any evidence for this assumption.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#280
post #266

The headline alone should show, what is odd with this case. * Tesla clearly states, that the autopilot is a driving aid and should not be used unobserved. * The engineer complained about the autopilot not working perfectly at the very place of crash. (Quite understandeable when seeing the state of the road and mostly absence of line markings in videos of the crash site). * Evidence seems to show that prior to the cra…

Nice, blaming the victim there.....

Bad pavement markings and "work in progress" sections, exist in almost every major highway... it is not an exceptional case, and it should not be treat such. The expectations is that the technology should work, or give you enough advance warning for you to take control...

There have been plenty of videos, where the tesla autopilot seems to just steer straight towards a side wall, with no warning whatsoever...

A Lidar would/might have prevented it... it would have served as a warning that the car is going to smash straight ahead into a solid wall and that the visual cues (lines in the pavement) are misleading.... I don't think just a camera system is good enough for automated driving.... I feel Elon is beta testing with people's lives...

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