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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#261

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

> They should call it "Driver assist" or something like "cruise control plus".

Exactly, similar tech has been named Adaptive Cruise Control since the 90s.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#262
post #236

I avoid new technology, exactly because I'm an engineer. I wonder if that is just me, but when new technology is introduced and hyped, I usually take a quick look at implementations, research, and talks just to get an idea of what the state of the art really is like. As a result, I have become the late adopter among my group of friends because the first iteration of any new technology usually just isn't worth the iss…

Yes. Current self-driving might be safer than the avarage driver, but what most people forget is how unsafe it is when it fails. It fails harder than most avarage drivers and even bad drivers. In my eyes self-driving should still be called driving-assistance.

> Current self-driving might be safer than the avarage driver

Citation needed, as far as I know this is not true at all.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you got these papers but you clearly got an awful sampling and I don't think you're giving computer vision a fair evaluation. Granted, we're not quite ready for self driving, but there's no question that the neural network subfield of ML has absolutely exploded in the last 5-10 years and is bursting with productionizable, application ready architectures that are already solving real world problems.

You sound like an NVIDIA salesperson trying to sell me on a $3000 Titan ;) There is no doubt in my mind that an AI with billions of parameters will be excellent at memorizing stuff. I also have no doubt that research activity has exploded, which might be related to the generous hardware grants being handed out... But all that research has produced surprisingly little progress over algorithms from 2004 in the field of…

While it's not my area of expertise, I am a bit wary of contest results. It seems like an exercise in overfitting via multiple comparisons? Maybe some algorithms with a slightly lower rank are actually more robust?

If it's as bad as you say, it seems like a critical evaluation would be pretty interesting and advance the field.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#264

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

"Autopilot" is not misleading. You just don't know what autopilot means. Autopilot on planes does not mean the plane is self-flying and the pilot doesn't have to pay attention anymore to take over at a moment's notice. Why would you think it's suddenly different in a car?

People in general think this is what autopilot means since that is how it is portrayed in movies and books.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#266
The headline alone should show, what is odd with this case.

* Tesla clearly states, that the autopilot is a driving aid and should not be used unobserved.

* The engineer complained about the autopilot not working perfectly at the very place of crash. (Quite understandeable when seeing the state of the road and mostly absence of line markings in videos of the crash site).

* Evidence seems to show that prior to the crash he did not pay attention while driving on autopilot at this very part of the road.

So I really don't get why anyone whould trust their life to a driving assist by not paying attention and closely supervising the system.

Where I think the lawsuit should have a merit and a good chance of succeeding is the state of road and the maintenance by Caltrans. They are in my eyes liable for the deadly outcome of the crash and that there was a crash at all:

* Left exits by themselves are a safety issue and should not exist (extremely rare here in Europe).

* The line markings were almost non-existant. Potentially dangerous sections of roads should have very good line-markings.

* As a consequence, it seems to be common that cars crash into this divider. That there was a "reusable" crash protection at it, should show the dangers of this section clearly.

* The crash protection was not active which lead to the deadly nature of the crash, as a car had crashed into it a week before. No other protections were in place (traffic cones, barrels)

So this section is shown as being very dangerous as human drivers regularly crash into the divider, there are no traffic cones (or have been destroyed by people almost crashing into the divider) and it was not secured after the last crash. The exit and the left lane should have been closed for traffic as long as the crash bareer is not in place.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#267

Tesla has some blame in this for sure but Caltrans (maintainers of the 101) are equally if not more to blame. California is rich in capital but so poor infrastructure. Moving here from South Carolina(where taxes are much lower and roads are paltry) I was shocked at how dismal a state many of the roads are and at the sheer amount of time it takes to complete. Patrick Collison of Stripe actually wrote a blog piece(1) c…

Many US citizens I talk to, seem to have the stance that they do not want to pay any taxes and that taxation is theft. I am sure California and others could do more and be held accountable (every service provider should and must be), but that attitude has to change too.

California has tax level on par with most of EU and would be pretty much the most left leaning state in US.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#268
post #251

For every tragedy, there are tragedies avoided. I can attest to a few. In the last 10,000 miles, Autopilot has: safely swerved to avoid a car that would have sideswiped me, preemptively braked after detecting the 2nd car ahead (not visible to me) had slammed on its brakes, and avoided colliding with a completely stopped vehicle in the center lane of the freeway. And FWIW I've never felt misled about Autopilot's capab…

That squarely puts Autopilot in the "Driver Aid" category. That is fine, just don't go telling people that it can drive unassisted.

Before owning a Tesla I did feel like Autopilot was overhyped, but I now realize that's more because of media coverage than anything Tesla is actively conveying. The vehicle software actively encourages driver attentiveness. Moreover when you actually experience Autopilot, it becomes abundantly clear that it can't drive unassisted.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#269

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

"Autopilot" is not misleading. You just don't know what autopilot means. Autopilot on planes does not mean the plane is self-flying and the pilot doesn't have to pay attention anymore to take over at a moment's notice. Why would you think it's suddenly different in a car?

Regardless of what autopilot means to pilots, it means something else to drivers.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#270
post #19

This is sad and tragic. I remember going with a friend on a Tesla test drive. He was eager to try the Autopilot system. And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off. I think the engineer should have never relied on it. Especially if he had concerns with the system. At the same time, "Autopilot" is misleading and Tesla does own responsibility here. Even…

GM calls theirs Super Cruise which is true hands-free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxeK0F-D3gg

yeah, as long as you're staring straight ahead. It has a camera that watches your face.

Otherwise they're the same. Except Tesla's keeps getting better with each update and GM stays the same until you take it in to the shop...

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