311–320 of 432 posts
I honestly love Apple Pay, but I don't use it super often because it makes me self-conscious. I feel like a bit of a dick for some reason. If you try to do something "weird" and it doesn't work, people get annoyed, or it feels like an imposition. Even when it works, people sometimes make some kind of comment. Relatedly, it's unpredictable whether it will work or not. It usually does, as long as the card machine says…
What frustrates me is the way everyone talks about Apple Pay as if it's the standard in mobile payments. Everyone calls contactless payments Apple Pay, which is technology other countries have had for many years built into the cards themselves via an NFC chip. Visa calls it PayWave(TM), because you just wave your credit card over the terminal to pay. I have been taking advantage of the benefits of contactless pay sin…
In the US market, Apple Pay came on the scene way bigger and way earlier than anything else. The traditional issuers weren't interested. So of course Apple gets the credit: it was the one to actually field the technology.
Samsung Pay is different. It works with swipe terminals too, by generating a magnetic field that imitates a magstripe card. A few years ago this was a big deal: NFC acceptance was pretty much only at hipster coffee shops and food trucks with Square readers, where the clientele all had iPhones anyway. Not so much now that most terminals upgraded to comply with the EMV mandate also have NFC.
I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's o…
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Melbourne: 9 days (near chinatown, the G, The Espy) Sydney: 9 days (Circle Quay, Barangaroo, Blue Mountains) Cairns, Airlie Beach, Yeppoon, Hervey Bay, Brisbane (2-3 days each). I'm American, my card doesn't do contactless, nor chip and pin. I also used old straight swipe cards while there for fun. I used cards for most purchases except at the melbourne market and a few other places where cash was required.
Ah. I must have misunderstood your point, that they were stunned at just how anachronistic American payment tech is.
Just for the sake of askance, is Apple Pay a card transaction?
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They make it sound like there is a special "Apple sauce" that they built and strongly suggest they generate a new PAN for every transaction. The suggest that a "token" instead of a PAN is used for the transaction. This is very misleading. If you read it very carefully they are not wrong, but for the uninitiated a wrong impression is crated. They are using an industry standard protocol that is 25 years old.
You are right that the core of Apple Pay security is functionally identical to chip and contactless transactions. However a seemingly trivial but important difference with Apple Pay is that it doesn't use your physical card number—instead it uses a different card number randomly assigned to your device. The payment networks can therefore recognise Apple Pay-assigned numbers and know to demand full Apple Pay authentic…
I do wonder if the security gain is significant enough to make Apple Pay integration a gross-positive for all parties. Apple appears to charge a ~0.1-0.2% fee per transaction made via Apple Pay [0], so it might be reasonable that the security adds enough value in its own right to make sense from a fraud/insurance perspective.
Might also be the fact that possibly being "Top of wallet" on Apple Pay (Which users might use anyway, irrespective of if their normal card is supported) provides enough value to take a small hit in fees.
[0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/16/02/22/apple-halved-tran...
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They’re claiming 5% of global card transactions, that surely can’t be true, there are quite a few developed countries where iPhones are not that common, and countries where other contactless payment systems are already widespread. And what about middle income and poor countries?
The U.S. is notoriously behind on this sort of stuff
Which is to say, after inventing the credit card, the US has since fallen behind.
Too busy inventing The Internet I suppose ...
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>More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. This is literally the first time I've heard a use case that would actually make me care about contactless versus a swipe/insert. Grabbing my phone off the RAM mount would be considerably easier pulling my gloves off and trying to fish out my wallet. In the past, I've always been incredi…
I've always found contactless to be significantly faster than insert and more reliable than swipe - have you not found the same thing?
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There is a lot of deliberately confusing marketing. "Tokenization" simply means that a new PAN is generated once per device. This is a normal PAN registered with the payment scheme and your issuer. It has to be a normal PAN, otherwise it would never pass through all the exiting payment infrastructure. What is generated per transaction is the EMV unpredictable number, but this is part of the EMV protocol and done for…
You claim it's "Deliberately confusing"... Which bit is confusing (or remotely deceptive)? > When you make a purchase, Apple Pay uses a device-specific number and unique transaction code. So your card number is never stored on your device or on Apple servers , and when you pay, your card numbers are never shared by Apple with merchants. Are you claiming this is untrue? Or deceptive?
Hopefully your bank has fraud controls on it to prevent it from being used outside of the way Apple Pay does (which requires your phone or a physical card so prevents theft) but that's not required and without it there is nothing stopping the card from being used like any other.
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Mostly there, you get a tokenized PAN (DPAN) for every card enrollment. Remove, and re-add a card to your digital wallet and you'll get a new DPAN. The unpredictable number is an (of a few) inputs into the generation of the CVV3, which is also based on a dynamic key from the issuer. Key rotation is on the order of weeks to months (depending on issuer). This is the "unique number" per transaction (part of tag 57 https…
> Remove, and re-add a card to your digital wallet and you'll get a new DPAN. Has anyone made a habit of rotating DPANs on a regular basis like this? Does Apple or your bank get irritated at some point?