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Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

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Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#81

Post by 32gbsd »

unlinked_dll wrote: post #75
32gbsd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not about space. Its about how quickly the space can change from driving along to full on collision if a mistake is made by myself or several hundred other cars.

You have more time to react when you have more space

other drivers will use the space to cause an accident. There is this tendency by some drivers to fill gaps. it doesn't matter how much space you have, its you versus all the other cars. Not just the car in front of you but the car behind and beside you on both sides.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#82

Post by keanzu »

amiga_500 wrote: post #68
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot is one word and the definition is very strict: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot > An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without constant manual control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the vehicle. That's the definition the feature name was based off o…

Musk, you and I know what people think auto-pilot on a car does. I really wish these were not on the road. Pilots engage autopilot and then let the computer do the work. They are not sitting ready at the stick to jump in at the slightest issue in case the system thinks the sun is another plane or some other odd error. My understanding is that the plane flies on it's own for hours. Is that incorrect? Yes for special p…

While I am not a pilot I have been on the flight deck of a 747. Can confirm that the pilots do not touch anything for hours at a time. IIRC they mostly checked the weather, fuel, engines, altitude and heading infrequently. The aircraft flew itself all the way to the Heathrow pattern. I asked what would happen if they did nothing. They claimed the aircraft would circle above the airport until it ran out of fuel.

The plane flies on its own for hours or at least 747s do.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#83

Post by LatteLazy »

runako wrote: post #48

I am intrigued by Teslas, and am considering purchasing one. However, I would feel better about the purchase if there was absolutely no autopilot software or hardware on board. Ideally that would mean zero , including non-autopilot builds of all system and control software so there is no chance the car will ever engage autopilot. Is it possible to buy a Tesla completely devoid of autopilot, or is this type of acciden…

Can't you just not use it? The driver in the crash activated autopilot intentionally shortly before the crash. He did that and then took his hands off the wheel. I can't comment on autopilots general reliability but using it appears to be entirely optional...

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#84

Post by ksml »

32gbsd wrote: post #72
ksml wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You almost crash at least 4 times a day?? I have no stats but I don't think that's normal. You should be driving much more defensively if that's the case.

The drivers around here are very aggressive while at the same time bad at calculating cause and effect of their actions

Yikes. Not sure where you are located, but that sounds pretty frightening. Best wishes!

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#85

Post by aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA »

runako wrote: post #48

I am intrigued by Teslas, and am considering purchasing one. However, I would feel better about the purchase if there was absolutely no autopilot software or hardware on board. Ideally that would mean zero , including non-autopilot builds of all system and control software so there is no chance the car will ever engage autopilot. Is it possible to buy a Tesla completely devoid of autopilot, or is this type of acciden…

Apparently it's a $7,000 option.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#86

Post by perl4ever »

eropple wrote: post #65
perl4ever wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It does not mean "full and complete attention the entire time lest it send you into the side of a semi at highway speeds" or "direct you into a concrete barrier"." Presumably "Autopilot" is a reference to aircraft, and they do not fly milliseconds away from concrete. (at least not the vast majority of the time) So if you want to be literal, then the word autopilot shouldn't give you confidence you aren't going to hi…

Frankly, this is disingenuity to the point of mendaciousness. Tesla knew what they were doing. Well-actuallying does not and will not change that.

I'm not endorsing Tesla or their tech, and I stand behind what I wrote as demonstrating the alternative to taking "Autopilot" as a metaphor - taking it literally. If you don't like either one, what's your justification for interpreting Autopilot in a particular way?

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#87

Post by [deleted] »

perl4ever wrote: post #64
ip26 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but think "ready to intervene" would require an even higher level of alertness than just driving the car yourself, as you have to always be prepared for it to do something completely unexpected on a dime- and to notice without the feedback you normally get through the wheel, pedals, etc... Even worse, if you are taking an action the autopilot should have taken but didn't, you are axiomatically already la…

"you have to always be prepared for it to do something completely unexpected on a dime" This is inherently absurd, even if you remove the last three words. You could write an essay, or a book, on why this is an example of a class of impossible problems. Or, inverting it, it's practically the generic framework of all catastrophes.

[deleted]

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#88

Post by keanzu »

runako wrote: post #48

I am intrigued by Teslas, and am considering purchasing one. However, I would feel better about the purchase if there was absolutely no autopilot software or hardware on board. Ideally that would mean zero , including non-autopilot builds of all system and control software so there is no chance the car will ever engage autopilot. Is it possible to buy a Tesla completely devoid of autopilot, or is this type of acciden…

It is an extra cost option. Don't specify it and it won't be enabled. The hardware and software are still present in the vehicle, just turned off.

There's never been a Tesla incident, that I know of, where the system has turned itself on. Every single crash has been after a deliberate engagement by the driver.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#89

Post by taneq »

qeqeqeqe wrote: post #44
taneq wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the curse of SAE Level 3. The driver is responsible for monitoring a system that works fine 99% of the time, they start to feel a false sense of security and when it does fail they're not paying as much attention as they need to be. This is also why SAE autonomy levels are a poor measure of a vehicle's capabilities, but that's another rant.

It's still safer than not having it.

Arguably no, it's not. This is why Waymo stopped working on level 3 and switched to level 4/5 systems. It's also why most vehicle manufacturers up until now have only supplied ADAS features which provide backup to the human driver (lane departure warnings, emergency braking assistance etc.) rather than features which drive while using the human driver as backup.

There are a few coming out soon (SuperCruise, Pro Pilot) that will offer some degree of level 2/3 operation. It'll be very interesting to see how that goes liability-wise.

Re: Apple engineer killed in Tesla crash had previously complained about autopilot

#90

Post by nzrf »

salgernon wrote: post #63
perl4ever wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And within a few minutes we got freaked out with what seem to us as unpredictable action and we turned it off." On the one hand, I'm affected by the FUD and will not buy a Tesla, and perhaps also will have schadenfreude to the extent their CEO has misfortunes. On the other hand, to be fair, other driver assistance features are creating problems too. I think it was Subaru I was just reading about having serious probl…

I have a Subaru with some sort of "Eye Sight" feature. It is quite handy in maintaining a constant distance from a car in front of you in moderate traffic - but you have to always be ready for someone to cut you off. It tracks the lane markers and rumbles the steering wheel. If a car stops short ahead of you, it beeps and flashes an indicator - I'm usually on the ball enough to hit the brakes myself though, so I don'…

I also own a Subaru. The assistance is very unwelcome for the crash detection at times. Living in Minnesota the exhaust from a car in front of you can set it off.

This can happen on start off of a green light and can completely decelerate the Subaru. The eyesight detects the exhaust as obstacle the car behind you is now at a loss why you are now immediately breaking off the green light. I’m not a fan at all and eye sight.

Additionally, you have to turn off the backup sensor to leave my drive way or it will slam on the brakes as it detects flowers that may be leaning into the drive way.

Car smarts don’t seem all that smart. I get a kid could be saved here, but driving a car crying wolf all the time leaves a consumer very frustrated. Dealership has been zero help in both regards.

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