Live data from Hacker News

Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

qz.com

231–240 of 432 posts

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#231

I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's o…

Another nice feature thing about Apple Pay (and maybe some others?) is automatic updating.

Some place I could not use Apple Pay with was involved in a breach, and so my bank notified me that I was getting a new card, and to start using it as soon as it came in the mail.

At about the same time as I got the email notice that this was happening, I got a notification on my iPhone that the card had been updating in Apple Pay to the new one. No action was required on my part.

I have no idea how they did that. I know there is a credit card updater service provided by at least Visa, MC, Discover, and AmEx that allows merchants with those cards on-file to ask for updates. We use that where I work, but the interface to it involves posting a file that contains one record per card we want updated in a fixed field format straight out of the punched char days (but wider than punched card). Then, typically in two or three days, a similar file comes back with update records for some of those cards. More updates trickle in that way over the next few days. And some never get a response.

Anyone know what it takes to get access to the kind of updates Apple is getting, where apparently the banks push the updates and they are very timely? Is this something only very high volume entities can get?

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#232
post #57

Not to hijack, but I'm really curious to see how this compares with Google Pay adoption and growth rate. Devices capable of Google Pay are likely more prevalent (well, maybe; there could be a lot of old Android devices out there that don't support it), but I wonder if there are similar trends as with the Apple App Store and Google Play Store, where customers of the former are much more likely to spend money. It would…

Devices capable of Google Pay may be more prevalent, but banks are less likely to support Google Pay. (Some of which is due to the fact that on Android, unlike iOS, it's possible to roll your own NFC payment app, so some banks insist on building their own trashy payment apps rather than supporting Google Pay.)

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#233
post #231

I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's o…

Another nice feature thing about Apple Pay (and maybe some others?) is automatic updating. Some place I could not use Apple Pay with was involved in a breach, and so my bank notified me that I was getting a new card, and to start using it as soon as it came in the mail. At about the same time as I got the email notice that this was happening, I got a notification on my iPhone that the card had been updating in Apple…

That's cool, but it must not be universal, because I've always had to re-setup my debit card.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#234
post #26

I honestly love Apple Pay, but I don't use it super often because it makes me self-conscious. I feel like a bit of a dick for some reason. If you try to do something "weird" and it doesn't work, people get annoyed, or it feels like an imposition. Even when it works, people sometimes make some kind of comment. Relatedly, it's unpredictable whether it will work or not. It usually does, as long as the card machine says…

It has never worked for me. Even at the Apple store!

Clearly it works for someone because "10% of global transactions" but, I'm guessing it has something to do with how bad Apple is at dealing with international issues like the fact the App Store is completely fucked if you need apps from multiple countries I can only guess Apple Pay is just as fucked.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was a tourist spot, it may have been surprising for someone with an American accent not needing a PIN.

Which would imply that the waiter is in fact quite savvy since they understand the intricacies of credit card authorisations for different countries.

Not particularly, anyone here who deals with sales for any amount of Americans will quickly see that they're the odd one out with contactless.

It's not that there's heaps of different scenarios, it's that there's America and the rest of the world.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#236
post #167

Apple Pay is great, but I wish it was more universally accepted at point of sale. But in the US we're not even at consistency in any form of POS payment method. Disney World (Florida) notably spent a BILLION dollars implementing a wonderful contactless payments++ system called MagicBand. [1] Last week I was shocked that at Disneyland (California), where they haven't implemented MagicBand, they not only don't accept A…

> Apple Pay is great, but I wish it was more universally accepted at point of sale. But in the US we're not even at consistency in any form of POS payment method.

That's something Samsung got right with their execution. It also emulates a mag stripe so it works in way more places in the US (its always fun when casher tells you you don't accept contactless payments and they see it work)

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#237
post #53
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that you had a fixed number, but Apple generates some kind of unique code, which is sent to the terminal. I.e., the terminal doesn't see your actual number.

I've definitely had the last 4 digits printed out on a receipt. While it is conceivable that those were transmitted separately I find that somewhat unlikely. I believe tokenization is a feature that is ultimately coming, but not quite there yet (and can also be supported by normal cards). Disclaimer: I take interest in the payment-world, but am by no means an expert and have made the above claims only to the best of…

> I've definitely had the last 4 digits printed out on a receipt. While it is conceivable that those were transmitted separately I find that somewhat unlikely.

I noticed this too. Some merchants print the last four of the device account number (DAN) and some print the last four of the actual primary account number (PAN).

I asked about it on /r/ApplePay [1]. /u/martialplum provided this explanation:

> Although the card number sent to the reader from in the transaction is the device account number, this gets de-tokenized along the way to your bank (either by the payment network or some third party) and the actual card number is the one used for authorization. Some issuers use the actual card number in the response they send back to the merchant (data element 2 in ISO 8583). Depending on how the card reader formats the receipt, it's not uncommon for merchant copies of the receipt to show the full device account number (expected), but show the last 4 of the actual card number for convenience when someone shows them the card on their device, which will show the same numbers.

The "ISO 8583" text in that was a link to this [2].

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplePay/comments/bnedl7/receipts_a...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583#Data_elements

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#238
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another nice feature thing about Apple Pay (and maybe some others?) is automatic updating. Some place I could not use Apple Pay with was involved in a breach, and so my bank notified me that I was getting a new card, and to start using it as soon as it came in the mail. At about the same time as I got the email notice that this was happening, I got a notification on my iPhone that the card had been updating in Apple…

That's cool, but it must not be universal, because I've always had to re-setup my debit card.

It's up to the issuer to support the service, not just the company charging the card.

https://developer.visa.com/capabilities/vau

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#239
post #19

5% at the moment seems like an incredibly high number to me, at least in the US. I looked it up here, where the stats say a different number: https://www.pymnts.com/apple-pay-adoption/ Also latest is about 51% of merchants have compatible equipment. 1.1% of sales is apple pay. Also usage numbers have gone down from 2018 to 2019. Seems like a puff piece to me?

I have no idea if 5% is correct, but worth noting that 1.1% figure is total sales, not including online. The article is about total credit card transaction volume.

Given the currently staggering inequality of wealth distribution on Earth, I would wager that the average revenue of Apple customers (arguably at least half the richest, trickling down to upper classes) is more than enough to make said customers' spending several times that of the average credit card owner (also increased purchase frequency).

That's what the story of Apple's market shares and image around the world seems to paint, anyway (the US is really an outlier, no other country buys anywhere near as many iPhones except Sweden, Japan and Switzerland iirc).

Apple is successfully pivoting into a luxury brand + service provider (let's call it the Porsche or Vuitton of consumer devices), and I think this article / thread goes to show that they've now effectively conquered their customers' wallet — as in, the product category.

Well played, hats off, but the genius really was in developing the strategy itself: suppose you have $200bn sitting in cash offshore that you can't bring back easily, and you also happen to have the 10-20% richest people on Earth as customers. Well, what can you do with those? ... Offer a financial service maybe, like payments? Tim Cook: hold my pad

I really do think the 5% figure might be every bit as real as the price tag of the latest flagships, as real as the kind of global wealth that allows casually spending ~4 figures on a phone in 2020.

Re: Apple Pay on pace to account for 10% of global card transactions

#240
post #231

I unabashedly love apple pay and use it preferentially whenever I can. in the US, it's faster than chip-and-pin cards by a LOT. It rolls a new number every time I use it, so i can pay at sketchy gas stations at 2 AM and not care about skimming. More and more gas stations are upgrading their pump POS pads so i can refuel my bike without digging under my armour for my wallet. On websites, my only quibble is that it's o…

Another nice feature thing about Apple Pay (and maybe some others?) is automatic updating. Some place I could not use Apple Pay with was involved in a breach, and so my bank notified me that I was getting a new card, and to start using it as soon as it came in the mail. At about the same time as I got the email notice that this was happening, I got a notification on my iPhone that the card had been updating in Apple…

I've come across this in the Stripe API as a standard feature of a lot of cards. I haven't had one do this myself, but I also haven't lost a credit/debit card.
Post reply on HN