N26 will be leaving the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#41

Post by marrs » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

billpg wrote: post #26

tablloyd wrote: post #18

I'm skeptical of Brexit being the reason that N26 is withdrawing from the UK. They started operation in the uk in October 2018, over 2 years after the referendum result and 6 months before the UK was meant to leave until the date got pushed back.

Back then, the government were still talking about keeping the same benefits of membership after we leave.

No, they were talking about doing that or leaving without a deal. That message didn't really change until the Chequers speech in July 2018, when no deal was essentially taken off the table.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#42

Post by threeseed » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

tablloyd wrote: post #18

I'm skeptical of Brexit being the reason that N26 is withdrawing from the UK. They started operation in the uk in October 2018, over 2 years after the referendum result and 6 months before the UK was meant to leave until the date got pushed back.

Not sure if you actually follow Brexit but the situation now is completely different to the last 2 years.

Michael Gove this week formerly advised businesses that the UK is going down the hard Brexit path i.e. leaving the customs union, single market and with full regulatory divergence from the EU.

Under these circumstances it is impossible to run a business like N26 in the UK serving the EU.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#43

Post by Karishma1234fff » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #11

Businesses pulling out of the UK based on the Brexit process is bad for the UK, and I'm sure this was indeed mainly motivated by N26's need for a UK banking licence, which is a costly and difficult process to go through. However, it's worth noting that they are pretty small in the UK (~200k users). They're very successful in Germany where banking is a very slow, difficult, manually run industry (from what I've heard)…

Next step for UK is to reduce regulations compared to EU to make it easier for people to setup shop in UK compared to EU.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#44

Post by andy_ppp » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

SpeakMouthWords wrote: post #25

Worth noting that N26 was touted for a while as a grim reaper that would come to the UK with its vast capitalisation (at the time about 2-3x as a much as any UK mobile bank) and blow Monzo and Revolut away. A good lesson that a well-funded incumbent in another market can't always make the hop to a different geography with assured success.

I mean giving up so easily when they have the capital to become a bank in the UK is really the issue here. Sure, it would have been harder than inside the EU, the real story is about them having no customers :-)

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#45

Post by hogFeast » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

billpg wrote: post #26

tablloyd wrote: post #18

I'm skeptical of Brexit being the reason that N26 is withdrawing from the UK. They started operation in the uk in October 2018, over 2 years after the referendum result and 6 months before the UK was meant to leave until the date got pushed back.

Back then, the government were still talking about keeping the same benefits of membership after we leave.

They weren't. This was never an option for banking, it is heavily protected almost everywhere (even within the Single Market).

The issue is that the UK is a very hard market: infinite competition from startups that are well-capitalised, and huge mega-banks that invest heavily in technology and run at low cost. For example, Lloyds has £400bn in retail deposits and cost/income of ~50%...German/French banks run closer to ~75-80%. We have some laggards (RBS) but generally, it is very tough (as are the Nordics).

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#46

Post by bradvl » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

adamt wrote: post #15

jrv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would be Metro Bank I'm not in the UK, but isn't Monzo also doing quite well?

Indeed - Monzo has 50% of challenger bank market share. N26 was almost behind Revolut and Starling and had little traction in the UK. Source: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-7647253/M...

Revolut has ~10m customers. Not all in the UK, but Revolut and Monzo both have enough accounts to be inside the top 10 current account providers in the Uk

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#47

Post by odiroot » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

btzll wrote: post #22

seemslegit wrote: post #6

Well, unlike some N26 users who get their accounts locked without warning explanation or anyone to turn to - at least the UK gets a notice.

Could you expand? People get their accounts locked for no reason?

Yes, very common here in Berlin expat community.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#48

Post by ars » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

princekolt wrote: post #16

Zenst wrote: post #2

As somebody who lives in the UK (London area), I've never even heard of this company N26, let alone aware that they had UK operations. I do frequent the web, youtube, bus stops, tubes, trains and utterly exposed to all forms of marketing. So from my perspective, this does seem like marketing failure from the start - at least from my perspective. Though the only real new Bank in the UK to do well, traction wise would…

I'm still trying to understand the point of your comment, but regardless: You haven't heard of it. So what? People will be affected by this. This will also not be the only company who will have to leave the UK because they've deemed the cost of legalising their business there after Brexit is not worth the benefits. So you're either in denial about that fact or you think it doesn't matter, which perhaps works for you…

He's saying the reason they failed is nothing to do with brexit and everything to do with the fact that no one knew about them.

But they are blaming brexit instead of their own failure.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#49

Post by bartread » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

butler14 wrote: post #29

Out-competed by Monzo/Starling/Revolut and co. and blaming Brexit. Not the first to use that excuse, and certainly not the last.

Yeah, I was thinking the same... along with "don't let the door bang behind you on the way out". Not that I voted for Brexit - quite the opposite as it happens, and I'd be a lot happier if we were still in the EU - but I don't have much patience with questionable excuses from businesses who failed to effectively compete with other companies in their space.

If they were running a commercially viable operation in the U.K., or had realistic hopes of doing so in the foreseeable future, of course they'd have applied for a UK banking license. The only reason not to do so is if that isn't the case.

Brexit has nothing to do with it, and I suppose we learn again that success requires more than just hubris and a truckload of money.

Re: N26 will be leaving the UK

#50

Post by threeseed » Tue, Feb 11, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

marrs wrote: post #41

billpg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then, the government were still talking about keeping the same benefits of membership after we leave.

No, they were talking about doing that or leaving without a deal. That message didn't really change until the Chequers speech in July 2018, when no deal was essentially taken off the table.

Leaving without a deal under May was a meaningless threat. It was never going to happen and Parliament had the numbers to prevent that from logistically happening anyway.

The difference now is that Johnson has the numbers, the mandate and the will for a no-deal Brexit. And Gove has just warned businesses this is happening:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-e...