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Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

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Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#261

Post by will4274 »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #9
moksly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building adds into the start menu search is ridiculous.

How do normal people (who use Windows) think that this is ok? In what universe is that possibly ok - to put ads in a paid-for OS? No matter the context, no matter the version of an os, no matter the reason, no matter what the ads are for, no matter that they could through some questionable hacking or editing be removed - ads in a paid-for OS. Has the whole world gone crazy? What is going on here?

Normal people buy Cable. Paid+ads is a valid business model used by many firms. It doesn't surprise me at all that _consumers_ are willing to purchase an OS product with ads - it does surprise me that no ad-free version is available for enterprises at additional cost.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#262

Post by holler »

choward wrote: post #160
nearmuse wrote: post #93

Still using Windows? Still using Office (360)? Still using GitHub? These aren't maybe exactly ripe for disruption, but since all of them have existed for ages now almost without any game-changing innovation these questions are very valid as well.

Those aren't even the worst. What about linked in?

I still to this day haven't used LinkedIn and refuse to use it, simply because of the dark-patterns they employed years ago with abusive, intrusive, and unsolicited email invites.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#263

Post by djsumdog »

aneutron wrote: post #6

Microsoft doing shady stuff again. It's really a shame. The engineering that the teams at Microsoft put to the kernel and the actual operating system at large is amazing. But then some Product Management division decides to shove this shit down people's throat and, for me at least, ruins all the fun of what would is otherwise an amazing piece of an operating system. I paid for an operating system, just let me use the…

I want to see Windows 11. I would rater pay for a new product update than just have Win 10 forever with ads and tracking. Microsoft stop this bullshit. In my world, your OS is good for one thing: gaming. Even then I have to install an outbound Firewall controller (currently Windows 10 Firewall Control) and spend an hour trying to disable all your shitty adds and phone-home and Cortana rubbish! My Linux box is what I use for anything important.

Microsoft could probably charge an extra $60 for an ad-free, privacy-aware consumer version of Windows 11 and make a considerable amount off that audience. But right now, there is no choice.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#264

Post by djsumdog »

geddy wrote: post #259
aneutron wrote: post #6

Microsoft doing shady stuff again. It's really a shame. The engineering that the teams at Microsoft put to the kernel and the actual operating system at large is amazing. But then some Product Management division decides to shove this shit down people's throat and, for me at least, ruins all the fun of what would is otherwise an amazing piece of an operating system. I paid for an operating system, just let me use the…

>I paid for an operating system, just let me use the damn thing in peace will you It's always been about control. You can apply this to damn-near everything too. "I paid for an operating system, let me use it as I see fit" "I paid for an internet connection, let me use it how I want" "I paid for a laptop, let me upgrade the RAM" "I paid for a phone, let me install whatever apps I choose / let me replace the battery"…

You use to always be able to buy aftermarket parts for a car. Now try buying parts for a Tesla to repair it yourself. It's literally impossible. It's just as bad as trying to get replacements for Apple parts. It's bullshit.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#265

Post by floatingatoll »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #136
moomin wrote: post #21

Reminder that “New” Microsoft Edge is just Chrone with different spyware. So yeah, I’m still using Firefox thanks.

FWIW, Microsoft did add tracking prevention tools much like Firefox and Safari have. So they did add the common browser feature Google refuses to integrate. Privacy-minded people who insist on using Chrome should switch to Edge over Chrome. But I refuse to contribute to the Chromium monoculture.

Did they port over WebKit’s ITP or Firefox’s or write their own?

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#266

Post by floatingatoll »

gruez wrote: post #37
moomin wrote: post #21

Reminder that “New” Microsoft Edge is just Chrone with different spyware. So yeah, I’m still using Firefox thanks.

I’ve heard that it still contacts google domains (probably because msft didn’t replace everything), so it’s more like google AND Microsoft spyware.

Are those just for “Google Safe Browsing”, or for other purposes as well?

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#267

Post by apazzolini »

iso1631 wrote: post #59
alxlaz wrote: post #20

This, and every other screw-up in the same vein, is why those of us old enough to remember the Halloween documents don't buy the whole "new Microsoft" thing. Want to get me to try Edge? Great -- instead of a passive-aggressive ad, try telling me how it's better than Firefox and why I'd like to use it instead. What will it get me? Better privacy? Better performance? Better development tools? Cynically, it's amazing th…

Over the last couple of years I've been coming round to the fact that microsoft aren't necessarily a major problem now, compared to google and amazon at least. Doesn't take much to put the shields back upto full. I just don't understand why people run windows. Maybe I just use computers wrong, having been on linux for the last 20 years, but my family (who I refuse to help with IT needs) are all far happier on chromeb…

Video games.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#268

Post by alxlaz »

tzs wrote: post #228
alxlaz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rules for advertising on radio and TV are a lot older and consequently more comprehensive, and there's a lot of variation from one country to another, of course. But at least where I'm from, it's explicitly forbidden for radio stations (in fact it's illegal for any company) to run any kind of comparative advertising that denigrates a competitor's product. It's OK to show off your product, and it's OK to compare your…

Ah, so it is because the ad can be seen as denigrating Firefox that you find it shady? The way your comment was phrased I thought that you were saying the shadiness comes from it being a Microsoft ad on a Microsoft medium which does not accept ads for competing products.

No, not just because that. I was simply discussing it in the context of your analogy.

In wider terms, Windows is very much not like a radio station. A radio station doesn't broadcast advertising for their competitors' shows, but it doesn't broadcast competitors' shows, either. If we're to apply the same laws that apply for radio stations, then they should apply under the same conditions: Microsoft can advertise their programs all they want -- but then they shouldn't allow running their competitors' programs, either. Let's see how successful Windows is without Photoshop, AutoCAD, 3D Studio Max, Matlab...

Windows is marketed and sold as a general-purpose operating system. I think it's reasonable for users to expect that Windows will treat all legitimate programs the same, regardless of their origin. That should include access to the operating system's advertising channel.

Using your foothold in one industry (operating systems) to discourage competition in other spaces (browsers) certainly is a grey area. Microsoft has been through a pretty similar lawsuit before, on exactly this topic, and that didn't go very well.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#269

Post by simion314 »

alxlaz wrote: post #78
iso1631 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last couple of years I've been coming round to the fact that microsoft aren't necessarily a major problem now, compared to google and amazon at least. Doesn't take much to put the shields back upto full. I just don't understand why people run windows. Maybe I just use computers wrong, having been on linux for the last 20 years, but my family (who I refuse to help with IT needs) are all far happier on chromeb…

> I just don't understand why people run windows. I've used Linux for about the same time and honestly, I understand it completely. I would switch, were it not for muscle memory and for the fact that at least 50% of my work involves systems-level development for Linux (mainly embedded stuff, so a lot of cross-compiling). In the last five or six years I've come to dread the Linux desktop and its constant churn of rewr…

Then don't use that DE that is targeting at clearly other people (I agree it sucks that most distributions use that DE but as power user you can install the distribution or DE that fits you better).

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#270

Post by ilikehurdles »

iso1631 wrote: post #59
alxlaz wrote: post #20

This, and every other screw-up in the same vein, is why those of us old enough to remember the Halloween documents don't buy the whole "new Microsoft" thing. Want to get me to try Edge? Great -- instead of a passive-aggressive ad, try telling me how it's better than Firefox and why I'd like to use it instead. What will it get me? Better privacy? Better performance? Better development tools? Cynically, it's amazing th…

Over the last couple of years I've been coming round to the fact that microsoft aren't necessarily a major problem now, compared to google and amazon at least. Doesn't take much to put the shields back upto full. I just don't understand why people run windows. Maybe I just use computers wrong, having been on linux for the last 20 years, but my family (who I refuse to help with IT needs) are all far happier on chromeb…

My windows computer is for goofing off and gaming. That is the only reason I keep it. If I want to get real work done I boot back into linux or use a macbook.
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