Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#221

Post by spatz » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

alxlaz wrote: post #20

This, and every other screw-up in the same vein, is why those of us old enough to remember the Halloween documents don't buy the whole "new Microsoft" thing. Want to get me to try Edge? Great -- instead of a passive-aggressive ad, try telling me how it's better than Firefox and why I'd like to use it instead. What will it get me? Better privacy? Better performance? Better development tools? Cynically, it's amazing th…

How about instead of a passive-aggressive ad try not showing me ads at all on my PC? It’s bad enough that it comes pre-installed and is the default.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#222

Post by antisthenes » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

I'm staying on W7 until extended paid support ends (W10 doesn't do anything for me functionality-wise.) W7 is incidentally the only MS product I ever paid money for (student copy of Pro for $30)

Then I'm switching to Linux.

Ads on individual websites I can tolerate, but not in an OS.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#223

Post by pgt » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

If Satya is listening, my next machine was going to be a Windows box, but this is the fastest way to lose my business as a developer.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#224

Post by 34679 » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

rsnor wrote: post #140

34679 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If W10 is on 800,000,000 computers[1], and it costs each user 1 second of productivity, then every time that ad shows, Microsoft is stealing 222,222 hours of productivity from people and businesses around the world to advertise its subpar browser in an operating system they've already been compensated for. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-says-windows-10-is-n...

I hate OS-level ads the same if not more than any other HN reader, but that's like saying we shouldn't be glancing out of the window for half a second because it would scale up to losing ~100,000 hours of productivity every day. It's a fraction of a ten-thousandth of a workday - anyone concerned with that level of optimization shouldn't be using humans to begin with.

I think you're looking at it from the individual's point of view instead of Microsoft's. Of course at the local level a person or even small business shouldn't be worried about a second of time lost. I'm not saying we should be concerned with employees glancing out the window. I'm saying any decision that affects 800,000,000 people has very tangible consequences.

I think an apt analogy would be the "Take a Penny, Leave a Penny" tray at convenience stores. Nobody cares if you take a penny from a gas station. But if someone figured out a way to take a penny from every tray in the world, that would raise some real questions about theft that would need to be answered.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#225

Post by switchbak » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #187

randiantech wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the DNA of pretty much any profit based oganization.

One that isn’t true and two these comments are thought terminating. Please be more careful next time.

Maybe I'm getting old, but there's a real arrogance to telling someone how they should think.

Why not tell them why you think they're wrong (and leave it up to them to change), instead of making naked assertions and telling them to change?

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#226

Post by paulcarroty » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

Is there a way to buy ad directly on Windows desktop yet? It will be very interesting for software promotion [irony].

MS seems like don't care for desktop users 'cause monopoly. Seems like my decision to avoid their products was positive.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#227

Post by runjake » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:14 PM UTC

celticmusic wrote: post #164

cptskippy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this shady Largely because it's Microsoft. Everyone else does cross promotion of their products but some people hold a special place in their heart for hating on Microsoft. It usually manifests itself with frothing at the mouth, exposition about how they were sued as a monopoly, and they're the devil. It's as if Microsoft was breaking into homes in the 90s and swapping your Macs out for PCs. Someone will res…

I've never had google ads randomly pop up on my desktop environment. When that starts happening, maybe you have a point.

You should use Chrome and ChromeOS more. It's already happening.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#228

Post by tzs » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

alxlaz wrote: post #114

tzs wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems pretty common, and I've not heard anyone consider it a problem before. For example radio stations commonly run promos for their own shows while not accepting ads for shows on other stations. Do you consider that shady too? If not, how do to you distinguish the Microsoft case?

Rules for advertising on radio and TV are a lot older and consequently more comprehensive, and there's a lot of variation from one country to another, of course. But at least where I'm from, it's explicitly forbidden for radio stations (in fact it's illegal for any company) to run any kind of comparative advertising that denigrates a competitor's product. It's OK to show off your product, and it's OK to compare your…

Ah, so it is because the ad can be seen as denigrating Firefox that you find it shady?

The way your comment was phrased I thought that you were saying the shadiness comes from it being a Microsoft ad on a Microsoft medium which does not accept ads for competing products.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#229

Post by betaby » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

NexRebular wrote: post #141

solarkraft wrote: post #41

Still using Windows? Many wonderful Linux distributions are here.

Still using linux? Many wonderful BSD and illumos systems are here.

With added security! Air-gaped, no WiFi 802.11AC for you.

Re: Microsoft begins showing an anti-Firefox ad in the Windows 10 start menu

#230

Post by fraktl » Mon, Feb 10, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

This will be unpopular but I don't care - I see nothing shady. They're promoting their product. In the era when we're lied to at every corner of internet, I see nothing wrong with Microsoft promoting their new and AWESOME browser.

Sadly, despite my love for Mozilla and Firefox, Edge is superior browser for me. It looks better, it works faster, it uses less memory and its developer console is much snappier, detailed and I am used to working with it. I'm sure there are people who would say the same about Firefox.

I would love for Firefox to be the best browser, both technically and subjectively. But it isn't (yet, and again - for ME).

Having hated Microsoft for a long time and having thought of Google as godsend, my opinion has changed in 2020. Microsoft did some amazing things for OSS community and for us web developers (Typescript, VSCode, Edge, Github.. I can stop here but there's more).

I actually recommend Edge to other people. The wording Microsoft chose might not be the best, but what are they supposed to do? Do nothing? What would the titles be then? "Trillion dollar company inept in promoting their latest and best product. Shareholders stumped."

By the way, the site that reports the issue (softpedia) loads ads and unwanted cookies. Using the same SJW logic, could I discredit their misleading title based on the source of their revenue?